On 27 October 2015 at 14:22, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 27/10/2015 1:13 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 27 Oct 2015, at 12:15 PM, Bruce Kellett < <[email protected]> > [email protected]> wrote: > > On 27/10/2015 12:05 pm, Jason Resch wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On 27/10/2015 10:52 am, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Monday, October 26, 2015, Bruce Kellett < <[email protected]> >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > On 27/10/2015 8:16 am, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> > >> > On Tuesday, 27 October 2015, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> so where does semantic content come from? >> >> >> >> From examples in the physical world. You can give as many botanical >> definitions of the word "tree" as you want but it will just be a word >> defined by other words that are themselves defined by yet more words that >> are.... If you tried to dig for meaning all you'd find is a endless loop, >> it would just be a game where words are manipulated according to the rules >> of botany until somebody forgot about definitions and pointed to the ASCII >> string "t-r-e-e" and then pointed to a large photosynthesizing organism >> made largely of cellulose that exists in the physical world. Then even a >> martian would notice a correspondence between this game of manipulating >> symbols called "botany" that humans had invented and the way these large >> photosynthesizing organism made largely of cellulose live. >> > >> > What about a virtual world with trees and observers, and no I/O devices >> connecting it to outside trees? >> > >> > I think Brent answered this in his response to Russell. The trees of >> the ordinary physical world do not connect with anything outside this world >> either in order to have semantic content. A virtual world would be no >> different in this respect. The point is that the content comes from >> something other formal symbol manipulation -- things such as pointing and >> sensory responses. There has to be something other than the consciousness >> with which the consciousness can interact. >> >> I take it you've never played video games. >> >> Not with any regularity. But I take it that when you play such games, you >> interact with the simulated environment via the provided interface -- the >> game only interacts with itself in so far as the original programmers >> designed it to. The semantic content is provided from outside in either >> case. >> > > So what do you think would happen if an AI, or uploaded mind were uploaded > into a virtual reality that was fully disconnected from the physical world? > Would that mind no longer be conscious? > > Difficult to tell because, by construction, you can't ask it. But if both > the AI and the VR are programmed by some external intelligence, semantic > content might be provided in that way. > > > But once programmed, there may be no further evidence of semantic content. > The computer could be fired into space, and the programmers and their > entire civilisation might die. If aliens find it and somehow work out the > syntax, there is no way for them to work out the meaning behind it, since > there is no intrinsic meaning in circuits turning on and off. So what is > the explanation here: the meaning is still there because the long-dead > programmers had thought about it in a particular way? > > > Could be. If the program is no longer running, the meaning might not be > recoverable. > The program is running, but the programmers and their civilisation are gone. How is the meaning recoverable? -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
