On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 10:48 PM, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 12/22/2015 1:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 8:21 PM, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> It wasn't their land either until they conquered whoever was there before >> them. >> > > "Their" in the sense of being born there, and having some culture develop > organically. > Incidentally, you might like this: > https://vimeo.com/50531435 > > >> The "prime directive" was to not interfere in another culture...it >> didn't say anything about replacing it. >> > > Fuck, you must have been listening to too many political debates. Either > that or you became a lawyer. > > >> Should the Spaniards have "respected" the human sacrifice religions of >> the Aztecs. >> > > Perhaps, but I don't hold discovery-era Spaniard to modern standards. > > > So you're saying that by modern standards they should have obeyed the > prime directive and not interfered? > It seems to me that, by modern standards: 1- Countries cannot attack other countries just for the purpose of expanding their territory (some excuse has to be created) 2- National sovereignty is respected, even in extreme cases (e.g North Korea or Saudi Arabia) Of course this is all manipulated behind the scenes, but that seems to be the current stance no? Why aren't we sending troops to save millions of North Koreans from forced labor? Or to save the people who are being beheaded for apostasy in the middle east? > > Their civilization was much less advanced. > > > Although it was more advanced than Hawiian culuture which still buried a > slave under each corner post of the king's palace. > Yes, but not sufficiently advanced to operate at the ethical level necessary for a multi-planet civilization. > > Surely they could have respected the historical and anthropological value > of Aztec temples, instead of burning everything down to extract the gold. > By today's standard. > > In realty, 16th century Spaniards couldn't give a rat's ass about human > rights. > > > I don't know how you know that, but from their contemporary writings they > were appalled at daily sacrifice of slaves and flaying captives alive as > religious ceremony. > But not appalled at enslaving these same people. > > It's just that the Aztecs were worshiping the wrong deity (which is to > say, they bowed to the wrong power structure). And the Spaniards really > wanted their stuff -- the land and natural resources. > > >> Were we wrong to interfere in the Nazi culture of killing Jews and >> Gypsies? >> > > Not at all, and there was no Nazi culture. > > > Sure there was: Wagner. Heroic Aryan legends. The Crusades. > Anti-semitism going back to Martin Luther. There was even a distinctive > German physics going back to WW1. > Nazism was an artificial construct that tied all of those things together under a certain narrative. Most of the cultural elements that you mention above were not rejected. Enjoying Wagner does not make you a Nazi. Nor does having an interest in Aryan mythology. Anti-semitism is still very common, outside of the context of nazism. Nazism was not culturally viable, it wasn't a plausible branch-off of our culture. It just wasn't stable. It was a freak accident, brewed under unusual and extreme circumstances. It was also not as directly opposed as we would like to believe. > There was an attempt by a charismatic leader to derail existing culture, > taking advantage of post WWI German defeat and humiliation. > > >> Do we have so little confidence in our own culture that we can't tell >> superstition from reason? >> > > I never said one couldn't or shouldn't tell superstition from reason. What > I am saying is that you cannot bomb a population into reason (or replace a > government, or perform financial warfare or whatever...) > > I have so much confidence in our culture that I believe we can lead by > example. > > > And the right example would have been to tell the Hawiians that their gods > wanted the telescope. > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
