On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 6:47 AM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> So you agree with our subjugation if a more advanced civilization
>>> discovers their way to Earth?
>>>
>>
>>
>> >>
>> If I had to answer with one word it would be "Yes". If I thought your
>> scenario was a real
>>
>> possibility I'd give a more
>> nuanced answer
>> ,
>> but
>> I don't for 3 reasons:
>> 1) My likes or dislikes on this matter would make no difference.
>>
>
> >
> They make no difference in this case, but they allow you to consider what
> the ethical behavior is when you are the advanced civilization
>
Although it is
not popular to say so I don't think ethics are objective, but that is not
to say I think ethics are unimportant, far from it, I think subjectivity is
vastly more important than objectivity. And I think you've forgotten how
this discussion started, the culture that existed in Hawaii when Captain
Cook landed there is long gone, the people who live in Hawaii today live in
the same culture you and I do regardless of who their ancestors were 300
years ago. But in any culture you're going to have individuals that are
particularly stupid and ignorant and these elements were allowed to destroy
the Thirty Meter Telescope which would have enriched the entire human race.
And don't talk to me about cultural traditions, I seriously doubt many
Hawaiians think much about Mother Earth or Father Sky, I'm not at all sure
any of them do; I think a small minority of people destroyed the
Thirty Meter Telescope
because they found that they could, and because they discovered that power
is fun, and
because destruction is so much easier than construction.
> >
> Your position overall seems to be that power=ethics.
>
My position is:
1) Building the
Thirty Meter Telescope
would have been ethical, in fact it would have been a wonderful monument
to humanity; if that
advanced
alien
civilization
you talk about asked me for one reason why humanity was worth saving and
should not be destroyed I would have shown them the telescope.
2) Only the ethics of the powerful matter, in this case we let a small
group of ignoramuses have the power and they made a barbaric decision, and
for reasons I don't understand some people think it is liberal or
progressive to make excuses for that barbaric behavior.
Somebody on this list told me it's not like it's a battle between the
forces of enlightenment and the forces of darkness, but I think that's
*EXACTLY* what it is.
> >>
>> Even is ET does exist we have nothing he would covet so there would be no
>> point in concurring us.
>>
>
> >
> That I don't know. They might be interested in expanding their living
> space to Earth,
>
If they have the technology for a interstellar invasion fleet then they'd
already have nanotechnology and
von Neumann probes
and could build a
Dyson Sphere around their sun; hell we'll have the technology to do that
in
less than a century, probably less than 50 years. Earth has nothing unique
to offer them that they couldn't obtain with
nanotechnology
with a lot less trouble.
>
>> > >
>> The Spaniards were total bastards, but the Aztecs were n
>> ot exactly goody-two-shoes
>> either.
>>
>
> >
> I never said the opposite. I am just saying that the Aztecs were not the
> invading force.
>
And the reason the Aztecs were not the invading force wasn't because they
had better morals, it was because they had inferior technology. If they had
the ability the Aztecs would have happily invaded Spain.
>
> you have to take the cultural context into account. It is quite different
> to die in a way that you consider honorable and meaningful within you
> belief system, or die under an invading force.
Most scholars think the reason the Aztecs went to war with neighboring
tribes was to obtain prisoners they could torture to death in religious
ceremonies. The Aztecs were not the only culture to engage in human
sacrifice but I can't think of another that embraced the practice with such
gusto.
> >>
>> it's all irrelevant now of course, the Aztecs and Spaniards involved in
>> those controversial activities have been dead for 500 years, so today the
>> matter is of academic interest only.
>>
>
> >
> Well, the images that the telescopes can observe are also from a much more
> distant past.
>
No, the telescope can't observe a goddamn thing thanks to a gang of
ignorant
barbarians and a gaggle of self described progressives who make excuses for
them.
John K Clark
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