"For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?" -- Jane Austen
Alberto, you're wasting your time with me. I have no dog in that race. I don't even vote. In any case, happy new year and glad to read from you again. Telmo. On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> wrote: > hehehe > > Sorry friends, but there is no better cure for a liberal than seeing his > own caricature in the face of another liberal slightly more radical > > 2016-01-04 1:16 GMT+01:00 John Clark <[email protected]>: > >> >> O >> n Sun, Jan 3, 2016 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>>> but that is not to say I think ethics are unimportant, far from it, I >>>> think subjectivity is vastly more important than objectivity. >>>> >>> >>> > >>> I am a bit surprised to read this from you. >>> >> >> Subjectivity, especially my subjectivity, is the most important thing in >> the universe; or at least it is in my opinion. >> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> the culture that existed in Hawaii when Captain Cook landed there is >>>> long gone, the people who live in Hawaii today live in the same culture you >>>> and I do regardless of who their ancestors were 300 years ago. But in any >>>> culture you're going to have individuals that are particularly stupid and >>>> ignorant and these elements were allowed to destroy the Thirty Meter >>>> Telescope which would have enriched the entire human race. >>>> >>> >>> > >>> Perhaps you are right, >>> >> >> Perhaps? Perhaps! In the pro versus anti telescope matter are you >> REALLY uncertain about which side represents the forces of enlightenment >> and which side represents the forces of darkness? >> >> >>> > >>> Almost every time I travel somewhere new I discover that I was fed >>> misconceptions and gross simplifications from the mainstream media >>> >> >> >> The mainstream media >> >> has not reported on the issue and probably doesn't >> even >> know it exists, and if they did would side with the barbarians or at >> least make excuses for them just as you do. If they ever do something on it >> I can easily visualize >> a >> puff piece on the Noble Hawaiians >> and their colorful belief in Mother Earth and Father Sky. >> You and the mainstream media >> >> would get along fine. >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> a small minority of people destroyed the >>>> Thirty Meter Telescope >>>> because they found that they could, and because they discovered that >>>> power is fun, and >>>> >>>> because destruction is so much easier than construction. >>>> >>> >>> > >>> But if you know these things and you don't practice them, then surely >>> there's something else at play? You know that power is fun yet you are >>> above such games. >>> >> >> There is indeed something else at play, knowledge. 29% of the people in >> the USA can't find the Pacific Ocean on a globe, the largest geological >> feature on the planet. To those people the Thirty Meter Telescope would >> have just been a big building. However I am not part of that 29%, I believe >> I could find the Pacific Ocean on a map if I tried real hard and I believe >> I could have recognized the beauty in the things the Thirty Meter Telescope >> would have found, but people that don't even know what the Pacific Ocean is >> could not. >> >> But, I hear you say, that means if I was as ignorant as they are I'd >> oppose the telescope too. Well yes it's true I would, but I'm not so I >> don't. And I don't think its moral to defend ignorance or make excuses for >> ignorance or patronize ignorance, I think its moral to oppose it. >> >> >> >>>> Building the >>>> Thirty Meter Telescope >>>> would have been ethical, in fact it would have been a wonderful >>>> monument to humanity; if that >>>> advanced >>>> alien >>>> civilization >>>> you talk about asked me for one reason why humanity was worth saving >>>> and should not be destroyed I would have shown them the telescope. >>>> >>> >>> > >>> You can still show them the Large Hadron Collider, or the Hubble >>> Telescope, or the International Space Station, >>> >> >> T >> he International Space Station >> is by far the most expensive "scientific" instrument ever made and is >> also close to useless and a >> particle accelerator has't found anything surprising in nearly half a >> century >> but telescopes certainly have and >> the thirty meter telescope >> >> could >> >> have >> >> seen >> t >> hings 156 times dimmer >> >> than what the Hubble can see >> >> and WHY DO YOU DEFEND THESE PEOPLE? I don't get it. >> >> >>> >> >>>> Only the ethics of the powerful matter, >>>> >>> >>> The powerful individuals in a society do not arrive in space ships. They >>> are created within that society. >>> >> >> Yes and liberals gave them the power to destroy because they believed >> they deserved it due to who their ancestors were. I do not have that belief >> so I guess I'm no longer a liberal. >> >> >>> >> >>>> in this case we let a small group of ignoramuses have the power >>>> >>> >>> > >>> And this reads like a contradiction of the above sentence. First you >>> define this class of "the powerful", but then you render it meaningless by >>> stating that even a group of ignoramuses can obtain that power. >>> >> >> If history has taught us anything it's that being a ignorant person and >> being a powerful person is not a contradiction. And the Hawaiians of >> native descent have power only because liberals feel they must give power >> to any vocal minority no matter how ignorant if they claim they are somehow >> victims of a injustice that happened many centuries before they were born. >> For decades I called myself a liberal until I ran into too many white >> liberals with knee jerk guilt reactions over things that happened centuries >> before their grandparents were born. I don't feel the slightest bit guilty >> over bad stuff my great great great great grandfather may or may not have >> done and if that diminishes my liberal credentials then so be it. >> >> >> >>>> If they have the technology for a interstellar invasion fleet then >>>> they'd already have nanotechnology and >>>> >>>> von Neumann probes >>>> >>>> and could build a >>>> >>>> Dyson Sphere around their sun; hell we'll have the technology to do >>>> that >>>> in >>>> >>>> less than a century, probably less than 50 years. Earth has nothing >>>> unique to offer them that they couldn't obtain with >>>> >>>> nanotechnology >>>> with a lot less trouble. >>>> >>> >>> > >>> Sounds reasonable, but what about preventing us from becoming a threat? >>> >> >> I works both ways, ET's home planet has nothing (other than information) >> to offer us, if we need more living space >> we can >> just send a >> >> von Neumann probe >> to Jupiter and program it to dismantle the planet and use the matter to >> build a Dyson Sphere. Who needs a tiny planet a thousand light years away? >> >> >>> In my life I have been labeled as "too left-wing", "too right-wing", >>> "too intellectual", "pseudo-intellectual", "anti-intellectual", >>> "progressive", "conservative", etc, etc. I long ago realized that these >>> labels are meaningless >>> >> >> I like labels because coherent thought would be >> >> impossible without them. >> So >> I make no apology for pinning the label "anti-intellectual >> >> barbarian" to those who destroyed the telescope nor do I apologize for >> pinning the label "knee jerk liberal" on those who feel it is their duty to >> make excuses for them. >> I have some other labels I could use too but you probably don't want to >> hear about those. >> >> >>> >>> > >>> are only useful in identifying the tribe that the person who utters them >>> identifies with. >>> >> >> I identify with the knowledge tribe. Are you sure you want to identify >> with the ignorance tribe? >> >> John K Clark >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
