hehehe Sorry friends, but there is no better cure for a liberal than seeing his own caricature in the face of another liberal slightly more radical
2016-01-04 1:16 GMT+01:00 John Clark <[email protected]>: > > O > n Sun, Jan 3, 2016 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >>> but that is not to say I think ethics are unimportant, far from it, I >>> think subjectivity is vastly more important than objectivity. >>> >> >> > >> I am a bit surprised to read this from you. >> > > Subjectivity, especially my subjectivity, is the most important thing in > the universe; or at least it is in my opinion. > > > >> >>> >> >>> the culture that existed in Hawaii when Captain Cook landed there is >>> long gone, the people who live in Hawaii today live in the same culture you >>> and I do regardless of who their ancestors were 300 years ago. But in any >>> culture you're going to have individuals that are particularly stupid and >>> ignorant and these elements were allowed to destroy the Thirty Meter >>> Telescope which would have enriched the entire human race. >>> >> >> > >> Perhaps you are right, >> > > Perhaps? Perhaps! In the pro versus anti telescope matter are you REALLY > uncertain about which side represents the forces of enlightenment and which > side represents the forces of darkness? > > >> > >> Almost every time I travel somewhere new I discover that I was fed >> misconceptions and gross simplifications from the mainstream media >> > > > The mainstream media > > has not reported on the issue and probably doesn't > even > know it exists, and if they did would side with the barbarians or at least > make excuses for them just as you do. If they ever do something on it I can > easily visualize > a > puff piece on the Noble Hawaiians > and their colorful belief in Mother Earth and Father Sky. > You and the mainstream media > > would get along fine. > > >> >>> >> >>> a small minority of people destroyed the >>> Thirty Meter Telescope >>> because they found that they could, and because they discovered that >>> power is fun, and >>> >>> because destruction is so much easier than construction. >>> >> >> > >> But if you know these things and you don't practice them, then surely >> there's something else at play? You know that power is fun yet you are >> above such games. >> > > There is indeed something else at play, knowledge. 29% of the people in > the USA can't find the Pacific Ocean on a globe, the largest geological > feature on the planet. To those people the Thirty Meter Telescope would > have just been a big building. However I am not part of that 29%, I believe > I could find the Pacific Ocean on a map if I tried real hard and I believe > I could have recognized the beauty in the things the Thirty Meter Telescope > would have found, but people that don't even know what the Pacific Ocean is > could not. > > But, I hear you say, that means if I was as ignorant as they are I'd > oppose the telescope too. Well yes it's true I would, but I'm not so I > don't. And I don't think its moral to defend ignorance or make excuses for > ignorance or patronize ignorance, I think its moral to oppose it. > > >> >>> Building the >>> Thirty Meter Telescope >>> would have been ethical, in fact it would have been a wonderful >>> monument to humanity; if that >>> advanced >>> alien >>> civilization >>> you talk about asked me for one reason why humanity was worth saving >>> and should not be destroyed I would have shown them the telescope. >>> >> >> > >> You can still show them the Large Hadron Collider, or the Hubble >> Telescope, or the International Space Station, >> > > T > he International Space Station > is by far the most expensive "scientific" instrument ever made and is > also close to useless and a > particle accelerator has't found anything surprising in nearly half a > century > but telescopes certainly have and > the thirty meter telescope > > could > > have > > seen > t > hings 156 times dimmer > > than what the Hubble can see > > and WHY DO YOU DEFEND THESE PEOPLE? I don't get it. > > >> >> >>> Only the ethics of the powerful matter, >>> >> >> The powerful individuals in a society do not arrive in space ships. They >> are created within that society. >> > > Yes and liberals gave them the power to destroy because they believed > they deserved it due to who their ancestors were. I do not have that belief > so I guess I'm no longer a liberal. > > >> >> >>> in this case we let a small group of ignoramuses have the power >>> >> >> > >> And this reads like a contradiction of the above sentence. First you >> define this class of "the powerful", but then you render it meaningless by >> stating that even a group of ignoramuses can obtain that power. >> > > If history has taught us anything it's that being a ignorant person and > being a powerful person is not a contradiction. And the Hawaiians of > native descent have power only because liberals feel they must give power > to any vocal minority no matter how ignorant if they claim they are somehow > victims of a injustice that happened many centuries before they were born. > For decades I called myself a liberal until I ran into too many white > liberals with knee jerk guilt reactions over things that happened centuries > before their grandparents were born. I don't feel the slightest bit guilty > over bad stuff my great great great great grandfather may or may not have > done and if that diminishes my liberal credentials then so be it. > > >> >>> If they have the technology for a interstellar invasion fleet then >>> they'd already have nanotechnology and >>> >>> von Neumann probes >>> >>> and could build a >>> >>> Dyson Sphere around their sun; hell we'll have the technology to do that >>> in >>> >>> less than a century, probably less than 50 years. Earth has nothing >>> unique to offer them that they couldn't obtain with >>> >>> nanotechnology >>> with a lot less trouble. >>> >> >> > >> Sounds reasonable, but what about preventing us from becoming a threat? >> > > I works both ways, ET's home planet has nothing (other than information) > to offer us, if we need more living space > we can > just send a > > von Neumann probe > to Jupiter and program it to dismantle the planet and use the matter to > build a Dyson Sphere. Who needs a tiny planet a thousand light years away? > > >> In my life I have been labeled as "too left-wing", "too right-wing", "too >> intellectual", "pseudo-intellectual", "anti-intellectual", "progressive", >> "conservative", etc, etc. I long ago realized that these labels are >> meaningless >> > > I like labels because coherent thought would be > > impossible without them. > So > I make no apology for pinning the label "anti-intellectual > > barbarian" to those who destroyed the telescope nor do I apologize for > pinning the label "knee jerk liberal" on those who feel it is their duty to > make excuses for them. > I have some other labels I could use too but you probably don't want to > hear about those. > > >> >> > >> are only useful in identifying the tribe that the person who utters them >> identifies with. >> > > I identify with the knowledge tribe. Are you sure you want to identify > with the ignorance tribe? > > John K Clark > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
