I printed the following "Duplicate Questionnaire" and gave one to both John-Washington, and John-Moscow. The questionnaires each had 8 questions:
1. What city did you last recall being in? 2. How many cities do you see now? 3. What is the name of the city you see before you? 4. True/False: You see two cities right now: 5. True/False: The prediction that you see Washington was: 6. True/False: The prediction that you see Moscow was: 7. True/False: The prediction that you see Washington and Moscow was: 8. True/False: The prediction that you see Washington or Moscow was: When I gave the questionnaire to John-Washington, he filled out the following answers (in bold): 1. What city did you last recall being in? *Helsinki* 2. How many cities do you see now? *One* 3. What is the name of the city you see before you? *Washington* 4. True/False: You see two cities right now: *False* 5. True/False: The prediction that you see Washington was: *True* 6. True/False: The prediction that you see Moscow was: *False* 7. True/False: The prediction that you see Washington and Moscow was: *False* 8. True/False: The prediction that you see Washington or Moscow was: *True* When I gave the questionnaire to John-Moscow, he filled out the following answers (in bold): 1. What city did you last recall being in? *Helsinki* 2. How many cities do you see now? *One* 3. What is the name of the city you see before you? *Moscow* 4. True/False: You see two cities right now: *False* 5. True/False: The prediction that you see Washington was: *False* 6. True/False: The prediction that you see Moscow was: *True* 7. True/False: The prediction that you see Washington and Moscow was: *False* 8. True/False: The prediction that you see Washington or Moscow was: *True* Both Johns expressed deep regret over insulting people on the Everything list, most especially Bruno. It turned out neither John-Washington's, nor John-Moscow's prediction that they would see both cities was true from their own first person points of view. Jason On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 5:15 PM, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 11, 2016, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>> >> >>> 1) Each >>> >>> copy saw only one city. >> >> >> > >> Excellent! That is the correct 1-view description. Now, you just need to >> interview each copy about the prediction made in Helsinki and written in >> the diary to evaluate the better one. >> > > How? Which turned out to be the better prediction, Moscow or Washington? > And was the prediction about John Clark or was it about some mysterious > figure named "you"? > > 2) All the copies together saw 2 cities. >> >> >> > >> Correct 3p description of the experiences of all copies. That is the 3-1 >> view. We need it to get the correct "1)", but "all the copies" is not a >> person, >> > > Then asking the Helsinki Person "what city will *you* see?" or "how many > cities will *you *see?" is a nonsense question because this is a world > with people duplicating machines. > > > > >> that is why you correctly add "together" >> >> (which is the 3-1 view, in which we are not interested). >> > > I know, you're interested in "THE 1p view" but as you just pointed out > in a world with people duplicating machine "THE 1p view" is meaningless, > there is only "A 1p view". > > >> > >> we are asked about the 1-views. >> > > You are asking about what one and only one city was seen by " > the 1-views > " and that is a incoherent question with no coherent answer. Garbage in > garbage out. > > >> >>> 4) The statement "John Clark will see two cities" turned out to be >>> unambiguously true. >> >> >> > >> In the 3-1 view, sure. >> > > If they were logical it would be true from true from ANYBODIES view, > Helsinki man Moscow Man Washington man you name it; John Clark will see two > cities. > > >> > >> But we asked about the 1-views. >> > > There are 2 "1-views", and Bruno Marchal demands to know which *ONE* and > only *ONE* *you* will see, and that demand is pure gibberish. > > >> >>> So which one was right? >> >> >> > >> Trivially both when in Helsinki the prediction written in the diary was >> "W v M", >> > > But what exactly was the prediction about? If it was about how many > cities John Clark will see there would be universal agreement that answer > turned out to be 2, but if was about how many cities you will see there > will never be universal agreement on what the answer turned out to be > because in a world with people duplicating machines the personal pronoun > used will be ambiguous. > > > *> Holiday Exercise: [...]* >> > > Adding more cities and more duplicates of "you" will not clarify the > situation about what one and only one thing will happen to "you". > > > >> So, is it 1/4 or 1/3 ? >> >> Can you modify a bit the protocol so that we get any of those results? >> > > Bruno, as long as the question has a personal pronoun in it any > probability for getting the right answer can be cranked out, and they're > all meaningless. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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