On 27 Sep 2017, at 01:35, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Terren Suydam <[email protected]
> wrote:
>> The expectations of what will happen will change from
person to person, but the reality of what actually did happen will
not.
> The reality of what actually does happen is not available to
anyone in the thought experiment,
The reality of who does or does not have the memories of being the
Helsinki man yesterday Is available to anyone by simply asking
the Moscow man and the Washington man about things the Helsinki man
knew.
>>> to open their eyes to a single city.
>> If he's a fool he might indeed expect that, but I don't
much care what fools think. But ask yourself this, how many fools
tomorrow will remember being asked the question today? I maintain
the answer is 2 fools not one. Do you disagree?
> It's irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant if the survival of the Helsinki man means
somebody today remembers being the Helsinki man yesterday; and I
can't imagine what else the survival of the Helsinki man could
mean.
> The actual number of copies is irrelevant to the thought
experiment, as long as it's more than one.
If there is more than one then it would be very foolish to ask
"what one and only one thing will *you* see after *you* become
two?". And that's why the thought experiment is worthless.
> before you enter the duplicator, what do you (the Helsinki
you) expect to experience?
I just don't get it! Why do you care what some jackass expects
today but don't care who will remembers being that jackass
tomorrow?
To make the prediction on the personal first person experience, you
*do need* to take into account what all copies will remember
"tomorrow". They all remember seeing one city, and not knowing which
one in advance. We take into account what all copies can say.
> Consider one's experience before entering the duplicator, and
the experience after. Follow the stream of consciousness, as if you
were the one entering the duplicator,
I don't know how to follow "THE" stream of consciousness and
don't even know what it means because there are two not one.
Not from any 1p available, and the question is on the 1p. There will
be two 1p, but they are logically incompatible (with this protocol) so
in Helsinki the candidate knows with certainty that he will see only
one city, but without being able to write which one in his diary. So
we get the First Person Indeterminacy (FPI). QED.
Bruno
> what happens on the other side?
John Clark will be in two cities on the other side, if you don't
believe me then go to the two cities and see if there is anybody in
them named John Clark.
John K Clark
As you agreed earlier, it's an experience of a single city.
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