On 2/19/2018 3:56 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 10:00:24 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote:



    On 2/18/2018 6:26 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
    Computers such as AlphaGo have complex algorithms for taking the
    rules of a game like chess and running through long Markov chains
    of game events to increase their data base for playing the game.
    There is not really anything about "knowing something" going on
    here. There is a lot of hype over AI these days, but I suspect a
    lot of this is meant to beguile people. I do suspect in time we
    will interact with AI as if it were intelligent and conscious.
    The really big changer though I think will be the neural-cyber
    interlink that will put brains as the primary internet nodes.

    Why would you suppose that when electronics have a signal speed
    ten million times faster than neurons?  Presently neurons have an
    advantage in connection density and power dissipation; but I see
    no reason they can hold that advantage.

    Brent


I think it may come down to computers that obey the Church-Turing thesis, which is finite and bounded. Hofstadter's book /Godel Escher Bach/ has a chapter Bloop, Floop, Gloop where the Bloop means bounded loop or a halting program on a Turing machine. Biology however is not Bloop, but is rather a web of processors that are more Floop, or free loop. The busy beaver algorithm is such a case, which grows in complexity with each step. The computation of many fractals is this as well, where the Mandelbrot set with each iteration on a certain scale needs refinement to another floating point precision and thus grows in huge complexity. These of course in practice halting because the programmer puts in by hand a stop. These are recursively enumerable, and their complement in a set theoretic sense are Godel loops or Gloop. For machines to have properties at least parallel to conscious behavior we really have to be running in at least Floop and maybe into Gloop.

But the complexity is bounded physically.  All these mathematical idealizations of computation assume some kind of infinity.  Since there are physical bounds the Church-Turing thesis will apply and all realizable computers compute the same recursively innumerable functions.  It's just that electronic ones can do it a lot faster, or looked at another way can be a lot bigger.

Brent



LC
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