On 3/21/2018 8:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Mar 2018, at 00:56, Brent Meeker <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 3/19/2018 2:19 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Brent Meeker <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote
/> octopuses are fairly intelligent but their neural structure
is distributed very differently from mammals of similar
intelligence. An artificial intelligence that was not modeled on
mammalian brain structure might be intelligent but not conscious/
Maybe maybe maybe.
A
nd you don't have have the exact same brain structure as I have so
you might be intelligent but not conscious. I said it before I'll
say it again, consciousness theories are useless, and not just the
ones on this list, all of them.
You're the one who floated a theory of consciousness based on
evolution. I'm just pointing out that it only shows that
consciousness exists in humans for some evolutionarily selected
purpose. It doesn't apply to intelligence that arises in some other
evolutionary branch or intelligence like AI that doesn't evolve but
is designed.
Not sure that there is a genuine difference between design and
evolution. With the multicellular, there is an evolution of design.
With the origin of life, there has been a design of evolution, even if
serendipitously. I am not talking about some purposeful or intelligent
design here. A cell is a quite sophisticated "gigantic nano-machine”.
Then some technic in AI, like the genetic algorithm, or some technic
inspired by the study of the immune system, or self-reference, leads
to programs or machines evolving in some ways.
Now, I can argue that for consciousness nothing of this is needed. It
is the canonical knowledge associated with the fixed point of the
embedding of the universal machines in the arithmetical reality.
It differentiates into the many indexical first person scenarii.
Matter should be what gives rise to possibilities ([]p & ~[]f, []p &
<>t). That works as it is confirmed by QM without collapse, both
intuitively through the many computations, and formally as the three
material modes do provide a formal quantum logic, its arithmetical
interpretation, and its metamathematical interpretations.
The universal machine rich enough to prove their own universality
(like the sound humans and Peano arithmetic, and ZF, …) are confronted
to the distinction between knowing and proof. They prove their own
incompleteness but still figure out some truth despite being non
provable.
The only mystery is where does the numbers (and/or the combinators,
the lambda expressions, the game of life, c++, etc.) come from?
But here the sound löbian machine can prove that it is impossible to
derive a universal system from a non-universal theory.
A weaker version of the Church-Turing-Post-Kleene thesis is: It exists
a Universal Machine. That is, a Machine which computes all computable
functions. The stronger usual version is that some formal
system/definition provides such a universal machine, meaning that the
class of the functions computable by some universal machine gives the
class of all computable functions, including those not everywhere
defined (and non algorithmically spared among those defined
everywhere: the price of universality).
That universal being has a rich theology, explaining the relation
between believing, knowing, observing, feeling and the truth.
That didn't address my question: Can you imagine different kinds of
consciousness. For example you have sometimes speculated that there is
only one consciousness which is somehow compartmentalized in
individuals. That implies that the compartmentalization could be
eliminated and a different kind of consciousness experienced...like the
Borg.
Brent
"We are the Dyslexic of Borg. Futility is persistent. Your ass will be
laminated."
Bruno
Brent
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