> On 20 Mar 2018, at 00:56, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 3/19/2018 2:19 PM, John Clark wrote: >> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Brent Meeker <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote >> >> > octopuses are fairly intelligent but their neural structure is distributed >> > very differently from mammals of similar intelligence. An artificial >> > intelligence that was not modeled on mammalian brain structure might be >> > intelligent but not conscious >> >> Maybe maybe maybe. A nd you don't have have the exact same brain structure >> as I have so you might be intelligent but not conscious. I said it before >> I'll say it again, consciousness theories are useless, and not just the ones >> on this list, all of them. > > You're the one who floated a theory of consciousness based on evolution. I'm > just pointing out that it only shows that consciousness exists in humans for > some evolutionarily selected purpose. It doesn't apply to intelligence that > arises in some other evolutionary branch or intelligence like AI that doesn't > evolve but is designed. >
Not sure that there is a genuine difference between design and evolution. With the multicellular, there is an evolution of design. With the origin of life, there has been a design of evolution, even if serendipitously. I am not talking about some purposeful or intelligent design here. A cell is a quite sophisticated "gigantic nano-machine”. Then some technic in AI, like the genetic algorithm, or some technic inspired by the study of the immune system, or self-reference, leads to programs or machines evolving in some ways. Now, I can argue that for consciousness nothing of this is needed. It is the canonical knowledge associated with the fixed point of the embedding of the universal machines in the arithmetical reality. It differentiates into the many indexical first person scenarii. Matter should be what gives rise to possibilities ([]p & ~[]f, []p & <>t). That works as it is confirmed by QM without collapse, both intuitively through the many computations, and formally as the three material modes do provide a formal quantum logic, its arithmetical interpretation, and its metamathematical interpretations. The universal machine rich enough to prove their own universality (like the sound humans and Peano arithmetic, and ZF, …) are confronted to the distinction between knowing and proof. They prove their own incompleteness but still figure out some truth despite being non provable. The only mystery is where does the numbers (and/or the combinators, the lambda expressions, the game of life, c++, etc.) come from? But here the sound löbian machine can prove that it is impossible to derive a universal system from a non-universal theory. A weaker version of the Church-Turing-Post-Kleene thesis is: It exists a Universal Machine. That is, a Machine which computes all computable functions. The stronger usual version is that some formal system/definition provides such a universal machine, meaning that the class of the functions computable by some universal machine gives the class of all computable functions, including those not everywhere defined (and non algorithmically spared among those defined everywhere: the price of universality). That universal being has a rich theology, explaining the relation between believing, knowing, observing, feeling and the truth. Bruno > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
