> On 3 Apr 2018, at 19:43, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 4/3/2018 12:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 31 Mar 2018, at 10:30, Russell Standish <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> Now, is a jellyfish conscious? >>>> >>>> I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant >>>> arithmetical consciousness (of the universal machines). >>> As I'm sure you're aware, I disagree with this. Jellyfish appear to be >>> quite simple automatons, with a distributed neural network, not any >>> brain as such. >> Yes, like the hydra, but the shape of the brain or the nervous system is not >> relevant, and maybe the nervous system is not relevant. >> >> I have no certainty, but the observation of hydra makes me doubt it is only >> a colony of cells, they seem to have an integrated personality. I might be >> wrong, but I just don’t know, and the math are easier with that assumption, >> to be honest. > > Then one's consciousness might be preserved by replacing neurons with > baccilus with little integrated personalities.
If they do the work of the neurons, why not? > On the other hand I know of someone who did that and it didn't seem to work > out well. Elliptical joke? > >> >> >> >> >>> However, my main reason for disagreeing is that >>> anthropic reasoning leads us to conclude that most species of animal >>> are not conscious. >> We have of course already discuss this in length. I am not sure that >> bayesian anthropism makes sense, as we don’t know what could be the prior. >> Bacteria might all have an undifferentiated consciousness, so they would all >> count for one person, but again counted relatively to one? >> Note that your argument precludes also aliens to be conscious, or to even >> exist. In arithmetic, all creatures > > Define "creatures”? Turing-Church Universal numbers. Bruno > > Brent > >> are represented in infinities, and the relative probabilities are handled by >> the self-reference modes, so we can avoid Turing-thropic or anthropic >> methods of reasoning. My critics here is isomorphic to my critics of >> doomsday like argument. >> >> >> >>> Our most typical animal is a nematode (for instance >>> your favourite - the planarians), but even most insects cannot be >>> conscious either. >> I am not sure of that. As I try to explain, may be the brain is only a >> filter of consciousness: information hides the universal person, for obvious >> evolutionary reasons. May be even 0 neuron could lead to “infinite >> consciousness”, a bit like in set theory the unary intersection of the empty >> set gives the whole universes of all sets. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >>> Principal, High Performance Coders >>> Visiting Senior Research Fellow [email protected] >>> Economics, Kingston University http://www.hpcoders.com.au >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
