> On 3 Apr 2018, at 19:43, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/3/2018 12:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>> On 31 Mar 2018, at 10:30, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>> Now, is a jellyfish conscious?
>>>> 
>>>> I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant 
>>>> arithmetical consciousness (of the universal machines).
>>> As I'm sure you're aware, I disagree with this. Jellyfish appear to be
>>> quite simple automatons, with a distributed neural network, not any
>>> brain as such.
>> Yes, like the hydra, but the shape of the brain or the nervous system is not 
>> relevant, and maybe the nervous system is not relevant.
>> 
>> I have no certainty, but the observation of hydra makes me doubt it is only 
>> a colony of cells, they seem to have an integrated personality. I might be 
>> wrong, but I just don’t know, and the math are easier with that assumption, 
>> to be honest.
> 
> Then one's consciousness might be preserved by replacing neurons with 
> baccilus with little integrated personalities. 

If they do the work of the neurons, why not?



> On the other hand I know of someone who did that and it didn't seem to work 
> out well.

Elliptical joke?



> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> However, my main reason for disagreeing is that
>>> anthropic reasoning leads us to conclude that most species of animal
>>> are not conscious.
>> We have of course already discuss this in length. I am not sure that 
>> bayesian anthropism makes sense, as we don’t know what could be the prior. 
>> Bacteria might all have an undifferentiated consciousness, so they would all 
>> count for one person, but again counted relatively to one?
>> Note that your argument precludes also aliens to be conscious, or to even 
>> exist. In arithmetic, all creatures
> 
> Define "creatures”?

Turing-Church Universal numbers.

Bruno



> 
> Brent
> 
>> are represented in infinities, and the relative probabilities are handled by 
>> the self-reference modes, so we can avoid Turing-thropic or anthropic 
>> methods of reasoning. My critics here is isomorphic to my critics of 
>> doomsday like argument.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Our most typical animal is a nematode (for instance
>>> your favourite - the planarians), but even most insects cannot be
>>> conscious either.
>> I am not sure of that. As I try to explain, may be the brain is only a 
>> filter of consciousness: information hides the universal person, for obvious 
>> evolutionary reasons. May be even 0 neuron could lead to “infinite 
>> consciousness”, a bit like in set theory the unary intersection of the empty 
>> set gives the whole universes of all sets.
>> 
>> Bruno
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Dr Russell Standish                    Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
>>> Principal, High Performance Coders
>>> Visiting Senior Research Fellow        hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
>>> Economics, Kingston University         http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
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