On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 11:06:51 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:57, Lawrence Crowell <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > > On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 11:01:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 25 Mar 2018, at 17:34, Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, March 25, 2018 at 5:01:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> Yes, and if someone argue that consciousness is not maintained whatever >>> the substitution level is, it is up to them to explain what in the >>> brain+local-evirnoment is not Turing emulable. I see only the “wave packet >>> reduction”, but I don’t see any evidence for that reduction, and it would >>> make Quantum mechanics inconsistent (I think) and not usable in cosmology, >>> nor in quantum information science. To believe that the brain is not a >>> “natural” machine is a bit like believing in some magic. Why not, but where >>> are the evidences? >>> >>> >>> Bruno >>> >> >> There are a couple of things running around here. One involves brains and >> minds and the other wave function reduction. >> >> The issue of up loading brains or mapping them come into the problem with >> the NP-complete problem of partitioning graphs. I like to think of this >> according to tensor spaces of states, such as with MERA (multi-scale >> entanglement renormalization ansatz) tensor networks. The AdS_3 example >> with H^2 spatial surface is seen in the diagram below. >> >> >> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KTQRkq19A5k/Wre62NN61yI/AAAAAAAADTI/tYG0j0LYGBsd1SKZ38rnFaAFxj5PaOhrwCLcBGAs/s1600/MERA-AdS%2Btensor%2Bnetwork.jpg> >> >> This network has the highest complexity for the pentagonal tessellation >> for these are honeycombs of the groups H3, H4, H5 corresponding to the >> pentagon, dodecahedron, and the 4-dim icosadedron or 120/600 cells. These >> groups will tessellate a 2, 3 and 4 dimensional spatial hyperbolic surface >> embedded in AdS_3, AdS_4 and AdS_5. These define half the weights of the E8 >> groups with the Zamolodchikov eigenvalues or masses. 5-fold structures have >> connections to the golden mean, and the Zamolodchikov quaternions are >> representations of the golden mean quaternions. A quantum error correction >> code (QECC) defines a projector onto each of these partitioned elements, >> but (without going into some deep mathematics) this is not computable in a >> root system because there is no Galois field extension, which gives that >> the QECC is not NP-complete. >> >> This of course is work I am doing with respect to the problem of >> unitarity in quantum black holes and holography. It may have some >> connection with more ordinary quantum mechanics and measurement. The action >> of a measurement is a process whereby a set of quantum states code some >> other set of quantum states, where usually the number of the measuring >> states is far larger than the measured states. The quantum measurement >> problem may have some connection to the above, and further it has some >> qualitative similarity to self-reference. This may then mean the >> proposition P = NP or P =/= NP is not provable, but where maybe specific >> examples of NP/NP-complete algorithms as not-P can be proven. >> >> This further might connect with the whole idea of up-loading minds into >> computers. Brains and their states are not just localized states but >> networks, and it could well be that this is not tractable. I paste in below >> a review paper on graph partitioning. This is just one possible theoretical >> obstruction, and if you plan on actually "bending metal" on this the >> problems will doubtless multiply like bunnies in spring. >> >> As a general rule once these threads gets past 100 I tend not to post any >> more. It becomes to annoying to find my way around them. >> >> >> >> >> That is interesting, and might even help later to recover notions like >> space, but to keep the distinction between the communicable and the non >> communicable part of the machines modes, which is needed for the mind-body >> problème, we have to extracted such structure in some special way, using >> the mathematics of self-reference. I am unfortunately not that far! It >> might take some generations of mathematicians. >> >> Bruno >> > > The non-communicating regions can be in a quantum entanglement. > > > > The non-communicating/proving/Justifiable-believing regions is axiomatised > by G*. The quantum entanglement appears (well their shadows at least) in > the material mode of the true self-references (see my papers for the > mathematical precision). > > I do not assume a physical reality. I assume only very elementary > arithmetic, or very elementary combinators theory, or anything Turing > equivalent. > > But there is indeed a relation between arithmetical incompleteness and the > quantum, as it is incompleteness making the logic of []p distinguishable > from []p & p and []p & ~[]f and others, and they give the arithmetical > quantum logic when p is restricted to the semi-computable (sigma_1) > propositions. > This is not well known, if not well hidden, despite verified by many. We > are in the materialist Aristotelian dogmatic era, where people prefer > comfortable lies instead of ignorance and research. > > Bruno >
I don't think entanglement has anything to do with self-reference in a direct way. It is with measurement of decoherence this might emerge. A measurement is a process where the superposition or entanglement phase is transferred to a reservoir of states which culminate in the needle state. In effect this leads to the einselection of stable classical states, which can occur without an actual conscious observer. The incompleteness is seen in the incompatibility of classical and quantum physics. I am not sure how this would fit into the NP-completeness of a quantum error correction codes in quantum gravitation. Black holes have some similarities with the problem of so called wave function collapse. Hawking radiation has decoherent structure and has been seen as a case of where a closed system can lead to collapse or decoherence. The standard idea is decoherence occurs because there is an infinite number of vacuum states an excited state can spontaneously emit into. This is more of an open system model. So this is a bit of a conundrum. Invoking NP-completeness is a way of arguing for an open world or system. Where this fits into a further putative Godel perspective is not clear to me. Cheers LC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
