> On 14 Apr 2018, at 06:39, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 4/13/2018 7:15 PM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> >> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 2:05:04 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 4/13/2018 6:35 PM, [email protected] <javascript:> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 1:08:55 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 4/13/2018 5:56 PM, [email protected] <> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 12:50:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 2:24:11 PM UTC-5, [email protected] <> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 6:53:23 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4/13/2018 6:44 AM, [email protected] <> wrote: >>>>> But since the momentum of either particle doesn't pre-exist the >>>>> measurement, there is a FTL influence, which IS hard to understand. In >>>>> fact, I doubt anyone does understand it. AG >>>> >>>> What would it mean to "understand it" besides being able to use the >>>> equations to make correct inferences? >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>>> It's an ostensible contradiction with relativity that information transfer >>>> cannot be instantaneous. Now please don't use the semantic dodge that >>>> there is no information transfer because it's just an "influence". AG >>>> >>>> The reason touching an entangled system here is correlated with it there >>>> is the system is the same in both regions of space. Quantum mechanics is >>>> not really primarily about causality in space or spacetime, but rather has >>>> a representation in space and time. >>>> >>>> LC >>>> >>>> You're in denial. Better to admit a baffling result and let the chips >>>> fall. AG >>> >>> Are you also baffled by the result of measuring the momentum of one of two >>> billard balls after their collision? >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> Not if the interaction is treated classically since local realism is >>> assumed. But if it's treated quantum mechanically, the momenta don't exist >>> prior to the measurement. This implies instantaneous action at a distance. >>> AG >> >> But why does that make baffling? Do you realize that the classical case >> would have been baffling before Newton. Someone would have wondered, "How >> does the distant billard ball know what momentum to have? It's witchcraft." >> >> Brent >> >> Sure, someone could have wondered, and probably did, why momentum is >> conserved in an elastic collision. Good question. But in the quantum >> treatment using the CI, we claim the momenta don't exist prior to >> measurement. This is a huge difference with huge implications, one being non >> locality. > > But non-locality is avoided by the randomness...so that no information is > transmitted. You're like the person who says, "Now it's momentum has > changed from an unknowable indefinite value to an unknowable definite value. > It's witchcraft!”
But then you are back to the dodging alluded to before. The randomness saves indeed special relativity, but that makes the non-locality even more looking like witchcraft. But Everett saves both locality and randomness, which becomes related to the fact that no machine, nor any quantum being, can be aware of the branches he belongs in the universal wave or in arithmetic. That is why I take the EPR-Everett-Bell-Aspect as the “discovery” that we are in a many-dream-computation-histories structure (that exists already as a mechanist consequence of Kxy = x, and Sxyz = xz(yz)). Bruno > > Brent > >> I'm sure you see the difference and are making me show you what you already >> know. OK. I like the challenge. AG >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
