> On 21 Jun 2018, at 18:55, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 6/21/2018 1:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 19 Jun 2018, at 16:10, Jason Resch <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Brent Meeker <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 6/18/2018 4:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:57 PM, Brent Meeker <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6/17/2018 4:43 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>>> On 17 June 2018 at 13:26, <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sunday, June 17, 2018 at 10:15:05 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 12:12 AM, <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> why do you prefer the MWI compared to the Transactional Interpretation? >>>> I see both as absurd. so I prefer to assume the wf is just epistemic, >>>> and/or >>>> that we have some holes in the CI which have yet to be resolved. AG >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. It's the simplest theory: "MWI" is just the Schrodinger equation, >>>> nothing else. (it doesn't say Schrodinger's equation only applies >>>> sometimes, >>>> or only at certain scales) >>>> >>>> 2. It explains more while assuming less (it explains the appearance of >>>> collapse, without having to assume it, thus is preferred by Occam's razor) >>>> >>>> 3. Like every other successful physical theory, it is linear, reversible >>>> (time-symmetric), continuous, deterministic and does not require faster >>>> than >>>> light influences nor retrocausalities >>>> >>>> 4. Unlike single-universe or epistemic interpretations, "WF is real" with >>>> MWI is the only way we know how to explain the functioning of quantum >>>> computers (now up to 51 qubits) >>>> >>>> 5. Unlike copenhagen-type theories, it attributes no special physical >>>> abilities to observers or measurement devices >>>> >>>> 6. Most of all, theories of everything that assume a reality containing >>>> all possible observers and observations lead directly to laws/postulates of >>>> quantum mechanics (see Russell Standish's Theory of Nothing, Chapter 7 and >>>> Appendix D). >>>> >>>> Given #6, we should revise our view. It is not MWI and QM that should >>>> convince us of many worlds, but rather the assumption of many worlds (an >>>> infinite and infinitely varied reality) that gives us, and explains all the >>>> weirdness of QM. This should overwhelmingly convince us of MWI-type >>>> everything theories over any single-universe interpretation of quantum >>>> mechanics, which is not only absurd, but completely devoid of explanation. >>>> With the assumption of a large reality, QM is made explainable and >>>> understandable: as a theory of observation within an infinite reality. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> You forgot #7. It asserts multiple, even infinite copies of an observer, >>>> replete with memories, are created when an observer does a simple quantum >>>> experiment. So IMO the alleged "cure" is immensely worse than the disease, >>>> CI, that is, just plain idiotic. AG >>>> It is important to make the distinction between our intuition and >>>> common sense and actual formal reasoning. The former can guide the >>>> latter very successfully, but the history of science teaches us that >>>> this is not always the case. You don't provide an argument, you just >>>> present your gut feeling as if it were the same thing as irrefutable >>>> fact. >>>> >>>> I think Scott Aaronson has the right attitude toward this: >>>> >>>> https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=326 >>>> <https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=326> >>>> >>>> >>>> As such a strong believer in quantum computers (he's staked $100,000 of >>>> his own money on the future construction of large scale quantum >>>> computers), I would love to ask Scott Aaronson what he thinks about >>>> running a conscious AI on such a quantum computer. That trivially leads >>>> to "many worlds" at least as seen by that AI. >>> >>> If it's so trivial maybe you can explain it. >>> >>> 1. A quantum computer is isolated from the environment so as to remain in a >>> super position of many possible states. >>> 2. Quantum computers are Turing universal, anything that can be programmed >>> on a classical computer can be programmed on a quantum computer >>> 3. Assuming Computational Theory of mind, a quantum computer can execute >>> the same conscious program as "Brent Meeker's Brain" >>> 4. The quantum computer can be arranged to entangle an unmeasured particle >>> with Brent Meeker's quantum brain emulation, >>> a) by feeding in spin up as an auditory tone in Brent Meeker's left >>> auditory nerve >>> b) by feeding in spin down as an auditory tone in Brent Meeker's right >>> auditory nerve >>> 5. The quantum brain simulation, being isolated from the environment, >>> remains in a super position of the Brent Meeker brain emulation hearing an >>> auditory tone in his left and right ears. >>> >>> You can repeat this process 30 times, with 30 different measurements of >>> different electrons, and end up with over 1 billion Brent Meeker brain >>> emulations, each remembering a different pattern of auditory tones. >>> >>> For the Brent Meeker quantum brain emulation, many worlds is definitely >>> true. The only question is, why isn't it true for us? >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> And you don't have wonder about Aaronson thinks, go check his blog. I'm >>> pretty sure he's posted about it. >>> >>> >>> He came quite close, in this blog post, but missed it: >>> https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2756 >>> <https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2756> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> QM also tells us that Wigner's friend, is no different from that "AI >>>> running on a quantum computer". >>> >>> I get kind of tire do being told that QM tells us this or that. QM is just >>> another theory. Ptolemy's theory told us the Sun went around the Earth. >>> You do realize that QM is inconsistent with GR? >>> >>> >>> If we had to choose between the two, my bet is the result would be a >>> revision to GR. >> >> I agree. To change QM, and getting the correct spin measurement in all >> directions, you would need to de-linearise slightly the SWE, but this makes >> the many worlds able to interact (Weinberg showed this, and Plaga in this >> list a long time ago). Problem: it makes thermodynamical laws wrong. Well, >> it makes almost all physical laws wrong). > > "Wrong" comes in degrees.
The Löbian machine agrees with you, like f, []f, [][]f, [][][]f, …. There are big lies and small lies in the machine’s mind. > QM made all physical laws wrong at the time. Not really. QM on the contrary consolidate them in their scale on more solid base. QM made only the metaphysical interpretation of those theories wrong. The same can be said with computationalism: it should (and seems to give) a very solid base of the quantum physical laws, with much less ontological requirement. > GR made Newtonian gravity and spacetime wrong. I would not say that. It shows them to be approximation. That’s the advantage for Platonism: it bets at the start that what we see is not the real thing, but approximation due to our finite abilities. > So if we reconcile our theories of spacetime and quantum fields the result > will likely be a theory that makes "all physical laws wrong”. Yes, as the physical laws have to be deduced from simpler ideas, and with Mechanism, the physicals arise from the unique measure on computational histories that we must extracted from a logic of bet on sigma_1 sentences, which we get with the adjunction of the consistency condition (<>t). Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
