On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 2:48:15 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Sep 2018, at 19:55, John Clark <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 7:20 PM Philip Thrift <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > > >> Mind is what a brain does >> >> >> > >*And walking and running is what the legs do. * >> *There is no "walking" like some Platonic immaterial universal except for >> some pair of legs to be doing it.* >> > > Right, there is no thinking without a brain (biological or electronic) to > do it. > > > Assuming your ontological commitment, but that is pseudo-religion. > > Or equivalently: you confuse matter and primitive matter. Nobody doubt > that to have human or biological consciousness, we need a human brain or > some electronic device, but that is irrelevant. > > What has been proved, (see Kleene’s 1952 book) is that the arithmetical > reality emulates all computations. No need of any more assumption than > Church thesis and the very elementary arithmetic. > > But an ontological physical reality is only metaphysical speculation or > hypothesis, and in our setting it is invalid to use it as a > counter-argument. The most you can do, if you really want to take your > ontology for granted, is to reject Digital Mechanism or to find a mistake > in my argument, without using your ontological commitment (which would beg > the question). > > Up to now, you have failed to that. > > Bruno > > > It still seems to me that consciousness itself could be an argument against a purely information-based ontology. ("Information" meaning based purely on numbers, combinators, etc.)
Philip Goff and Michael Shermer discussed basically this: https://scottbarrykaufman.com/podcast/solving-the-mysteries-of-consciousness-free-will-and-god-with-michael-shermer-and-philip-goff/ via https://twitter.com/Philip_Goff/status/1043053992916467714 (In there there is an about 1 hour podcast.) My summary (fits in a tweet) of Goff: "Physicalism, based on pure informationality (quantitative states and language} is not sufficient to explain consciousness, but a materialism (one greater than physicalism) that is based on experientiality (qualitative states and language) in addition to informationality, may be." - pt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
