On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:45 AM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:26 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:35 AM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:01 AM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:18 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 4:34 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 4:21 AM Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 19 Dec 2018, at 12:59, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dynamics is the study of matter in motion. There are no clocks in >>>>>>> arithmetic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course there is clock. The successor function implements it out >>>>>>> of time and space. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The fact that you can use one ordered sequence to index another >>>>>> ordered sequence does not constitute a clock. >>>>>> >>>>>> Nothing exists out of time and space, not even time and space >>>>>> themselves. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Accordingly, you must reject: >>>>> >>>>> - Membranes >>>>> - String theory landscape >>>>> - Eternal inflation >>>>> - The inside of black holes (yet another observer-dependent >>>>> phenomenon) >>>>> - Other universes with different physics (it's amazing that our >>>>> universe allows for life, assuming it's the only universe that exists) >>>>> >>>>> All of these ideas have at least some motivation/support. Why reject >>>>> them out of hand? >>>>> >>>> >>>> This is a very mixed list! Some of these have no evidential support, >>>> some are mere speculation, and other universes with different physics is a >>>> long stretch, not at all in accordance with present knowledge. I do not >>>> reject all these possibilities, but we do need more data on some of them. >>>> None of them exist outside of space-time, however. >>>> >>> >>> What do you think about the apparent fine-tuning of the universe? e.g. >>> https://www.amazon.com/Just-Six-Numbers-Forces-Universe-ebook/dp/B00CW0H6JY >>> >>> Isn't this a very strong statistical argument that other universes with >>> different physical laws must exist? >>> >> >> No. there is no evidence for that at all. Why should the constants of >> nature be a random selection from some distribution? >> >> > 1. It is a prediction of eternal inflation and string theory. > String theory and its "landscape" are very speculative, and unlikely to have any relation to the real world -- there is no evidence that string theory is even a coherent theory! Eternal inflation, although popular, is only one possibility for inflation, and even inflationary theory itself is not well-established science. > 2. There is no known principal that prohibits other systems ruled by > different laws. > The idea that everything that is not forbidden must exist is a silly metaphysical notion. 3. The digits of the dimensionless constants at significance levels not > important to life appear to be randomly distributed > Appearances can be deceptive -- vide flat earth. > 4. It is highly surprising that the dimensionless constants hold the > values they do as if they were even slightly different, the universe would > be too simple for any life to exist > How do you know that? Look, the Bayesian prior for any argument about the nature of the universe is that we exist. So there is nothing in the least surprising about the fact that the universe we observe is compatible with our existence. Anything else is just idle speculation. > Why do you believe there is only one inevitable possibility for the laws > of physics? I've never heard any justification for that idea. > Why do you think I believe that? One idea about the end-point of physics is that there is a TOE that will explain everything -- predict the values of all constants and so on, maybe even specify a lot of the boundary conditions. Why do you believe that such a TOE is not possible? Bruce -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
