I see you are of the scholastic school of philosophers (I thought they
were all dead) who suppose that they can make things true by giving them
"precise definitions" in words. You should study some science and learn
the importance of operational definitions in connecting words to facts.
Brent
On 4/18/2019 2:43 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
I think that you are making the classical confusion that a lot of
materialists are doing, namely to not have a proper understanding of
precise philosophical concepts, such as: meaning, purpose, free will,
etc., and because of this lack of understanding, you randomly apply
these concepts where they don't belong. Basically what you are doing
is to personify objects. You basically say: "look, that puppet looks
like a human, so it must be a human". Therefore, I would ask from you
and other people that make such hastily use of these precise
philosophical concepts, to do some reading before engaging in such
conversations, because otherwise you will think that you say profound
things, when in fact you only demonstrate a shallow understanding of
serious concepts, which is a pity, because you lower the level of the
discussion.
So:
1) Rover doesn't have purpose, since purpose is represented by a
thinking that a consciousness is doing through which it bring thoughts
in his mind and uses free will to choose between those possibilities.
Also, the very concept of "artificial intelligence" is highly flawed,
because intelligence (the natural one, the only one that exists)
presupposes bringing new qualia into existence that never existed
before in the whole universe. A deterministic system cannot do that.
Rover doesn't have the ability to act, since act means a consciousness
that through free will imposes its causal powers upon the world. Rover
doesn't communicate, because communication means to exchange meaning,
and meaning is something that exists in consciousness. Sending 0s and
1s is not communication. Rover has no memory because memory means
re-experiencing a previously experienced quale. Rover doesn't learn,
because learning means the ability to re-act certain qualia that have
been experienced before, and improve upon them.
2) You only make that assertion from your position of lack of
knowledge. You have no knowledge of a whole field of study, and
because you lack this knowledge, you assume that other people are
lacking it as well.
As you can see, you are trying to engage in a discussion in which you
have total lack of knowledge of basic concepts. With all due respect,
I would suggest you first do some serious readings before engaging any
further in these issues. You can start with my book. It is a very good
starting place.
On Wednesday, 17 April 2019 18:43:20 UTC+3, Brent wrote:
On 4/16/2019 11:23 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
1) Well... It might be a very specific arrangement of atoms, but
they are still governed by Newton's Laws. Is not like if you put
them in certain order magic happens and new things start to
appear. It has no memory, no purpose and no ability to act, since
memory, purpose and ability to act are properties of consciousness.
1)
But a Mars Rover with artificial intelligence does have purpose,
to collect and analyze various data. It has the ability to act,
to travel, to take samples, to communicate. It has memory of its
purpose, where it's been, and for an AI system, even the ability
to learn. Yes, no magic happens. But new things start to appear
just as certain arrangements of atoms are your computer that can
transform and display these symbols but in another arrangement
would be just a lump of metal and plastic.
2) Try removing yourself from the house in the middle of the
winter. You will stop experience warmth, but this doesn't mean
that the quale of warmth is generated by the house.
True. But something is different about inside and outside the
house that is not ONLY in your consciousness, because others agree
about it and measure it...it's called temperature.
3) I have done the thinking. I don't have to do the experiment to
know it is true.
2)
That's what all the scholastics thought.
Brent
On Wednesday, 17 April 2019 03:00:14 UTC+3, Brent wrote:
1)
First, that's false. The Rover is a very specific
arrangement of atoms interacting with a specific
environment. It has memory, purpose, and the ability to act.
2)
Try removing the phosphate atoms from your brain and see what
you believe...if anything.
Maybe because you think that the brain is just a bunch of
atoms. No, it is now. If you were to measure what the
electrons are doing in the brain, you would see that they
are not moving according to known physics, but they are
being moved by consciousness.
3)
And have you done this observation? A Nobel prize awaits.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected] <javascript:>.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
<javascript:>.
Visit this group at
https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list
<https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
<https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
