I think that you are making the classical confusion that a lot of materialists are doing, namely to not have a proper understanding of precise philosophical concepts, such as: meaning, purpose, free will, etc., and because of this lack of understanding, you randomly apply these concepts where they don't belong. Basically what you are doing is to personify objects. You basically say: "look, that puppet looks like a human, so it must be a human". Therefore, I would ask from you and other people that make such hastily use of these precise philosophical concepts, to do some reading before engaging in such conversations, because otherwise you will think that you say profound things, when in fact you only demonstrate a shallow understanding of serious concepts, which is a pity, because you lower the level of the discussion.
So: 1) Rover doesn't have purpose, since purpose is represented by a thinking that a consciousness is doing through which it bring thoughts in his mind and uses free will to choose between those possibilities. Also, the very concept of "artificial intelligence" is highly flawed, because intelligence (the natural one, the only one that exists) presupposes bringing new qualia into existence that never existed before in the whole universe. A deterministic system cannot do that. Rover doesn't have the ability to act, since act means a consciousness that through free will imposes its causal powers upon the world. Rover doesn't communicate, because communication means to exchange meaning, and meaning is something that exists in consciousness. Sending 0s and 1s is not communication. Rover has no memory because memory means re-experiencing a previously experienced quale. Rover doesn't learn, because learning means the ability to re-act certain qualia that have been experienced before, and improve upon them. 2) You only make that assertion from your position of lack of knowledge. You have no knowledge of a whole field of study, and because you lack this knowledge, you assume that other people are lacking it as well. As you can see, you are trying to engage in a discussion in which you have total lack of knowledge of basic concepts. With all due respect, I would suggest you first do some serious readings before engaging any further in these issues. You can start with my book. It is a very good starting place. On Wednesday, 17 April 2019 18:43:20 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/16/2019 11:23 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > 1) Well... It might be a very specific arrangement of atoms, but they are > still governed by Newton's Laws. Is not like if you put them in certain > order magic happens and new things start to appear. It has no memory, no > purpose and no ability to act, since memory, purpose and ability to act are > properties of consciousness. > > 1) > > But a Mars Rover with artificial intelligence does have purpose, to collect > and analyze various data. It has the ability to act, to travel, to take > samples, to communicate. It has memory of its purpose, where it's been, > and for an AI system, even the ability to learn. Yes, no magic happens. > But new things start to appear just as certain arrangements of atoms are > your computer that can transform and display these symbols but in another > arrangement would be just a lump of metal and plastic. > > > 2) Try removing yourself from the house in the middle of the winter. You > will stop experience warmth, but this doesn't mean that the quale of warmth > is generated by the house. > > > True. But something is different about inside and outside the house that > is not ONLY in your consciousness, because others agree about it and > measure it...it's called temperature. > > > 3) I have done the thinking. I don't have to do the experiment to know it > is true. > > 2) > > That's what all the scholastics thought. > > Brent > > > On Wednesday, 17 April 2019 03:00:14 UTC+3, Brent wrote: >> >> 1) >> First, that's false. The Rover is a very specific arrangement of atoms >> interacting with a specific environment. It has memory, purpose, and the >> ability to act. >> >> 2) >> > > >> Try removing the phosphate atoms from your brain and see what you >> believe...if anything. >> >> Maybe because you think that the brain is just a bunch of atoms. No, it >> is now. If you were to measure what the electrons are doing in the brain, >> you would see that they are not moving according to known physics, but they >> are being moved by consciousness. >> >> 3) >> > >> > And have you done this observation? A Nobel prize awaits. >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
