So to summarize: - We lose: causality, determinism, prediction, and any hope of understanding the universe without getting into the minds of competing consciousnesses, some proportion of which don't inhabit biological bodies - We gain:
Can you help me out with that second line? Why should anyone take your theory seriously when it means jettisoning science? What's the payoff? On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 4:46 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote: > On Monday, 22 April 2019 07:41:14 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> 1) Causality can still exist even if time is an illusion. For example in >> block-time, time is an indexical - all times can be said to exist at once - >> but that in no way diminishes the role of causality in describing the >> dynamics and interactions of the system as time 't' varies. >> >> No, it cannot. It is just the story of the movie. I guess that in dreams > when a rock falls and hits the ground, you don't consider that the rock > fell because it was causally attracted by the earth. It is just the story > of the dream. > > >> 2) I don't even know how to make sense of this claim. The whims of >> competing consciousnesses are what determine the laws of physics? To me >> this is indistinguishable from "God did it". There's no way to reason about >> it, no hope for making predictions or improving understanding. You'd have >> to understand the minds of the consciousnesses whose competition creates >> reality. >> > > Yes, you cannot make predictions anymore, because it all depends on the > thinking of each individual consciousness. Is like in society. You can only > make vague general predictions, but you will never have exact predictions > like in physics, because you are dealing with complex consciousnesses. The > predictions in physics are more precise because you are dealing there with > primitive consciousnesses and they act in simple manners. > >> >> 3) Also, other consciousnesses want me to die... right? >> >> They don't want you to die. What happens is that interaction is disrupted > at some point, and your highly evolved consciousness falls apart. Is also > similar to how society works. When the component consciousnesses don't > interact anymore in the proper ways, society falls apart. > >> >> On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 4:41 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, 20 April 2019 02:15:40 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >>>> >>>> 1) I'm not sure I can make sense of the term 'influence' without >>>> causation. In every instance I can think of, to influence something means >>>> to exert some kind of force on it such that it behaves differently then it >>>> otherwise would have. It *causes* it to change. >>>> >>> >>> The thing is that time itself is a quale in consciousness. You can have >>> temporal extended periods in consciousness that happen all at once. You can >>> see it as a movie that already exists. If you attend-along to the movie it >>> appears to you as if there are causal powers happening there. But the movie >>> exists all at once, so causality is an illusion. I'm writing about this in >>> "The Quale of Time". >>> >>>> >>>> 2) I'm not following your evolutionary account of competing >>>> consciousnesses, and how that leads to constraints that I cannot influence. >>>> What evolutionary dynamic is responsible for gravity? I'd sure like to >>>> flap my arms and fly. Why can't I? >>>> >>> >>> Because there are other consciousness that don't want you to fly. And >>> they are many and they win. Gravity is an external appearance of internal >>> interactions that take place in other consciousnesses. Those >>> consciousnesses are not necesseraily linked to biological bodies, so there >>> is no easy way to pinpoint them. They are living in their internal worlds. >>> And their interactions are as such that to us it appears that there is a >>> thing that we call "gravity". >>> >>>> >>>> 3) How do you account for death in your worldview? If there are no >>>> such things as electrons or brains, then what about the ultimate >>>> constraint? Why do people die? >>>> >>>> In my view, death is just a transition to another life. Since Self is >>> eternal, it means that death is just a point in which the experiences of >>> the Self are changing. Why exactly it turned out to be this way has to do >>> again both with evolution and probably also to some inerent fact about the >>> very nature of self-reference to need diversity to be able to exist. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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