Re: "only certain kinds of matter can be conscious" and "all matter is conscious"
I do think the first (human brains at least, and perhaps some non-human brains, from primates to down* the "food-chain"). Some think there was no fully or cognitively conscious (only a sensory conscious) human before language. There may be something to that. But not the second (where there is self and self-awareness). *Rocks are not conscious.* But the idea is that all matter does have some level of *elementary protoconsciousness* in various types, phases, and configurations of matter. When some matter is combined into certain configurations (like a human brain), these *protopsychical parts* are fused into something conscious. * Do Insects Have Consciousness and Ego? *The brains of insects are similar to a structure in human brains, which could show a rudimentary form of consciousness* https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/do-insects-have-consciousness-ego-180958824/ I don't think that societies are conscious, the Earth is conscious, the universe is conscious. The Earth is aware of itself? I don't think so. @philipthrift On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 8:25:26 AM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: > > You keep trotting out the term "cybernetic delusion" as if it's a problem. > But it's just an assumption I make, that consciousness is identified with > cybernetic dynamics. I'm exploring the consequences of that idea, which are > compelling IMO. > > You or anyone else can feel free to adopt or not adopt that assumption. > But it's not a delusion. Calling it that suggests there's a more correct > way to view consciousness. But you haven't been clear about what that is, > vacillating between "only certain kinds of matter can be conscious" and > "all matter is conscious". If you adopt panpsychism, you fall prey to the > cybernetic delusion yourself. And when you don't, *you fail to explain > what privileges certain kinds of matter over others*. It seems pretty > clear to me that there's no principled way to do that... any explanation of > why brains can be conscious but not computers starts to sound suspiciously > like "spirit" and "soul", in the sense that you're invoking some property > of matter that cannot be detected. > > Terren > > On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 4:57 AM <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, May 4, 2019 at 8:30:00 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 9:15 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> *> What happens in cases of telepathy is [...]. For example, in cases of >>>> dream telepathy [...] This clearly is a case of dream telepathy.* >>>> >>> >>> OK, there was little doubt before but you just made it official, Cosmin >>> Visan is a crackpot. >>> >>> John K Clark >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Telepathy I doubt pretty bigly, but the cybernetic delusion is a really >> crackpot idea. >> >> @philipthrift >> >> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <javascript:>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
