> On 14 May 2019, at 01:54, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 5/13/2019 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> 3) Or maybe it's "what the brain does", as many physicalists like to say. My >> body as mass, because the atoms that make up my body amount to that mass. >> What amounts to my consciousness? What are the building blocks? There is no >> accounting, there is no description in yours or van Neumann's sense. > > But there are models that work. That was my point in citing AI projects like > Watson and AlphaGO. The building blocks are perception, information > processing, values, and action. You say "there is no accounting" but that's > because you're using "accounting" as a synonym for "explain". The accounting > in scientific theory is in terms of a model that works.
With “model” in the logical sense of “theory”. OK. > You're demanding of a theory of consciousness that will do for consciousness > what general relativity does not do for the metric or for the stress-energy > tensor, what Darwin did not do for reproduction with variation. Maybe > someday Bruno's theory will yield some interesting prediction (of the > future), but until then it's a theory doesn't do any work. It does. Once you are interested in consciousness, it does work, and it explains also the existence of a theological trap, and how to not fall in it, and this has been confirmed when you look at the history and compare the platonician period and the Aristotelian. It is really the difference between peace and war, prosperity and poverty. What you mean, is that it does not work as well as current physical theories, but even this is false, in the sense that physics works only by assuming an identity thesis which is, let us say, non intelligible, pure magic. In that sense, mechanism works much better than physics today. And with mechanism, physics does work only by putting the mind under the rug, that is denying that when we do a physical experience, at some point we use of first person experience, if only to note where is the needle. So what you mean, is that Mechanism is not as efficacious than physical theories, FAPP. And that is true, but that is equivalent with saying quantum mechanics is to reject in everyday life, because it is easier to make a pizza using elementary classical physics that using Schroedinger equation. Physics is the right tool for doing prediction, but to explain why it works, without denying the conscious experience, we need serious metaphysics. > So far it doesn't even account for the effect of holding your breathe too > long or ingesting LSD. How do you know that? It does this rather well. > The physical model that says consciousness is the brain processing > information by neuron's firing at synapses...a very successful model. But consciousness is not neural firing. You cannot identify a first person event with third person event, unless you make them both into very special sort of infinities. > But the mysterians of consciousness want to pooh-pooh that because it > doesn't talk about how their consciousness "feels". But neither does Bruno's > . No, that is wrong. You need to study a bit more. The fact that G*proves all modes of self)ferefence equivalent, but that the machine cannot see this explains all the discourse on consciousness, and its relation with matter. Ask any question on this, but you might revised a bit my papers. > He talks about "arithmetic, seen from the inside" as though that was more > than a Platonic metaphor. Yes, it is an arithmetical fact, even without Mechanism, in which case the internal viewer are zombies, but they are still there as a fact, and they deny to be zombie, although they are already aware that can’t prove this to you. Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6d7eae1d-f2b7-3fe9-2643-cd0db62b915e%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6d7eae1d-f2b7-3fe9-2643-cd0db62b915e%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/17F6206E-D96E-4A76-AD0C-F9D91F2D2143%40ulb.ac.be.
