On Thursday, May 30, 2019, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 5/30/2019 2:25 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thursday, May 30, 2019, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On 5/30/2019 12:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 1:18 PM Philip Thrift <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 9:14:48 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, May 30, 2019, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 7:50:37 AM UTC-5, Tomas Pales wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, May 29, 2019 at 10:15:46 PM UTC+2, Jason wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Appears to predict the arithmetical reality: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "There exists, unless I am mistake, an entire world consisting of >>>>>>> the totality of mathematical truths, which is accessible to us only >>>>>>> through >>>>>>> our intelligence, just as there exists the world of physical realities; >>>>>>> each one is independent of us, both of them divinely created and appear >>>>>>> different only because of the weakness of our mind; but, for a more >>>>>>> powerful intelligence, they are one and the same thing, whose synthesis >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> partially revealed in that marvelous correspondence between abstract >>>>>>> mathematics on the one hand and astronomy and all branches of physics on >>>>>>> the other." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://monoskop.org/images/a/aa/Kurt_G%C3%B6del_Collected_W >>>>>>> orks_Volume_III_1995.pdf on page 323. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In philosophy, the relation between abstract and concrete objects is >>>>>> called "instantiation", for example between the abstract triangle and >>>>>> concrete triangles. It is a relation whereby the abstract object is a >>>>>> property of the concrete objects and the concrete objects are instances >>>>>> of >>>>>> the abstract object. The instantation relation is regarded as primitive, >>>>>> similarly like the composition relation between a collection of objects >>>>>> and >>>>>> the objects in the collection. The instantiation relation may appear more >>>>>> mysterious though, because while it is quite easy to visualize a >>>>>> collection, it is impossible to visualize an abstract object. >>>>>> >>>>>> Abstract and concrete objects are existentially dependent on each >>>>>> other, because there can be no property without an object that has the >>>>>> property, and there can be no object that has no property. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In the fictionalist philosophy of mathematics >>>>> https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fictionalism-mathematics/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> there are no such things as abstract objects. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So such troubles do not arise. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Let's say reality is composed of two sets: >>>> >>>> 1. The set of all existent things >>>> 2. The set of all non-existent things >>>> >>>> If nothing existed at all, then set one would be emtpy, while set two >>>> would contain everything. >>>> >>>> Now take the nominalist position. Set one would contain the physical >>>> universe while set two would contain all abstract objects: arithmetical >>>> truth, executions of programs, histories of non-existent universes, etc. >>>> >>>> What puzzles me, is that in the program executions and in the histories >>>> of non-existent universes you will find worlds where life evolves into more >>>> complex forms, you will find the risings and fallings of great >>>> civilizations, you will find literature written by the philosophers of >>>> those civilizations, their treatises on ontology, on why their universe is >>>> concrete while others are abstract, on the mysteries of consciousness and >>>> strangeness of qualia. If all these things can be found in the abstract >>>> objects of the set of non-existent things, then how do we know we're not in >>>> an abstract object of that set of non-existent things? >>>> >>>> Does it matter at all which set our universe resides in? Can moving an >>>> object from one set to another blink away or bring into being the first >>>> person experiences of the entities who inhabit such objects, or is their >>>> consciousness a property inherent to the object which cannot be taken away >>>> merely by moving it from one set to another? >>>> >>>> Much to think about. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>> >>> >>> For the fictionalist, one can invent anything, including mathematics >>> with different definitions of sets producing a multiverse of mathematical >>> truths (Joel David Hamkins) and logics that are inconsistent (Graham >>> Priest). >>> >>> Matter (the universe we live in) gives what it gives and nothing more. >>> >>> There is a story today about rare earth minerals: >>> >>> https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/30/investing/rare-earths-china-trade-war/ >>> >>> I suppose for those who think that matter doesn't exist, a shortage of >>> rare earth minerals cannot be a problem. Maybe someday we build a matter >>> compiler that can make them. >>> >>> >> I didn't say matter doesn't exist. I only point out that the property you >> call "existence" doesn't seem to *do* anything. >> >> >> If rare-earths exist you can make things out of them. Otherwise you >> can't. >> >> >> Brent >> > > > So what of rare earths on beyond the cosmological horizon? Or in other > branches of the wavefunction? > > > So rare Earths here don't exist. > > > Brent > Is existence an intrinsic property or a relative one? Jason > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ > msgid/everything-list/95cda20e-43cb-c3d8-dc5b-c0d95a295e06%40verizon.net > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/95cda20e-43cb-c3d8-dc5b-c0d95a295e06%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUgpQ%2BiEm8wqjipfA0UL%2Bw3hR-yk84KN%2B0prCZ03U5Odxg%40mail.gmail.com.
