> On 18 Jul 2019, at 22:08, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 11:31 AM Bruno Marchal <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > >> A Turing Machine is compatible with both pure mathematics and pure > >> physics, but Lambda Calculus is compatible only with pure mathematics. > > Why? > > Ask Alonzo Church the inventor of Lambda Calculus who admitted it's true, and > so did Godel.
True for the pedagogy, false for the conceptual and mathematical complexity. > > > The so called LISP machine implements combinators and lambda expression > > LISP machines were just Turing Machines Nonsense. > that incorporated common subroutines used in the LISP language in HARDWARE to > enabled them to run faster, but by the early 1990's microprocessors had > gotten so fast that cheap home computers ran faster than any dedicated LISP > machine and that's why nobody makes them anymore. > > >>I am telling you that matter is needed to make that happen, in this case > >>the matter in the microprocessor of the computer that is running the video > >>game that is using Bitcoins as money. > > > But why? > > Why what? Why assuming primary matter, what is it, and how would that make a computation more real than others? > > > Why to make that assumption, > > What assumption? The assumption that there is a physical universe, and that in metaphysics we have to make that assumption. Why do you assume that matter is not explainable from non physical notion? > > >> Consciousness? What the hell does that have to do with the price of > eggs? > > > You are the one saying that we need matter for a computation to happen > > Because every computation ever observed in the history of the world has > required matter. We have to explain observable by using “all computation”, when we assumed mechanism, which is what make your argument circular here. I stop here, because I have already answered all other comments in other posts. Bruno > > > (and I infer “to support genuine consciousness”). > > And every time in the history of the world a change in consciousness resulted > in a change in the physical state of a brain and a change in the physical > state of a brain resulted in a change in consciousness. > > > If not, then it is even more weird why you want for matter, given that the > > computation are realised in arithmetic, > > And not once in the history of the world has anyone observed a computation > being made in nothing but a change in arithmetic. In fact nobody has ever > observed a change in arithmetic period. > >> >>> the whole video game is executed through pure number relation >> > >> Incorrect. The whole video game is executed through voltage differences > >> in the microprocessor. > > > You can implement it, > > You've got it backwards. The numbers don't emulate the voltages in the > microprocessor, the voltages in the microprocessor emulate the numbers. > > >> We can use the language of mathematics to help us understand how those > >> voltage differences effect each other, and we can if we wish interpret > >> those voltage differences as numbers. > > > In your theory which assumes a physical universe. > > The only thing I assume is that if something works then it works and if > something doesn't work then it doesn't work. Making calculations with the > help of matter works, making calculations without matter doesn't work. > > And that is your cue to refute what I just said by referring to a textbook > that will never be able to calculate 2+2. >> > See the combinator thread for a precise disproof of this. > > Ah yes, that legendary post > > >Ad hominem. Boring. > > What's boring is your referring to posts that don't exist, your constant > whining and using that incredibly pompous Latin phrase. > > >> post of yours that plugs all the holes in your theory and proves that > >> everything I've said is wrong, the post that you've been talking about for > >> the better part of a decade, the post that NOBODY HAS EVER SEEN. > > > I just said that I have proven that the giving of the lambda expressions > > [x][y]x (which does the same job as K) and [x][y][z]xz(yz) > > I agree, "[x][y]x" does indeed *do* the same job as "K) and [x][y][z]xz(yz)" > because both ASCII sequences *do* precisely NOTHING and 0=0 so they both *do* > exactly the same thing. Nothing. > > >>The logical operation of every computer ever made can be reduced to a > >>Turing Machine. > > >True but irrelevant. > > How in the world is that fact irrelevant?! > > > Actually it makes my point, but usually, thanks to our physical laws (and > > transistors) the boolean operation will be used to simulate a Turing > > machines. > > Boolean operations don't simulate Turing Machines, Turing Machines simulate > Boolean operations. > > >> Ironically to rebut my accusation that you keep changing the meaning of > >> "Aristotle theology" you introduced the concept of "Aristotle's second > >> God"; I've never heard anybody mention that before, but I admit you know > >> more about Greek silly ideas than I do. > > > The first God is Aristotle first mover it is [...] > > Bruno, I did ask you not to tell me, I've given up keeping track of your > constantly mutating definitions of common words and invented phrases and > acronyms used by nobody but you. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2EDrpjXzYoKKGjJkFytDAy2oRRPUktDMmgH2ZRs6WW_A%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2EDrpjXzYoKKGjJkFytDAy2oRRPUktDMmgH2ZRs6WW_A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/45294214-2FD7-4DBD-814E-8F27583DA3CF%40ulb.ac.be.
