On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:37 AM Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Then there is at least one thing that a Turing Machine can do that >> Lambda Calculus or Turing quintuplets can not do, and there is no doubt >> about it. So stop pretending that Turing quintuplets are more profound >> than Turing Machines, the oposite is true. > > > > *A Turing machine is a set of quintuplets.* > No it is not. A set of quintuplets is an attempt to explain the workings of a Physical Turing Machine in mathematical language, it can't calculate. And thermodynamic equations can not produce work either, you need a diesel engine for that. Explanations are very nice but explanations can't calculate or do work. But physical machines can. * > A head + a tape might implements physically a Turing machine, but the > result is a particular case of Turing machine:* > I don't know what you mean by "a particular case of Turing machine", there are 64 one state Turing Machines and 20,736 possible two state Turing Machines and in general there are [4(N+1)]^2N different N state Turing Machines, so the number of machines increases exponentially with states and there is at least one machine for every problem that can be calculated. You could build a 3 symbol Turing Machine if you wanted to, or a 4 or 5 or 6 ......, but there would be little point in doing so other than engineering considerations because the logical operation can be reduced to a 2 symbol machine. And you could replace the paper tape with something made of silicon, but the logical operation of every computer ever made can always be reduced to a physical 2 symbol Turing Machine with N states. > >> So let me see if I've got this straight. If I believe in theology X > then I'll need about half a ton of expensive hardware and many megawatt > hours of electricity to mine even a few Bitcoins that I can use to buy > stuff; but if I convert to "theology" Y then I can mine Bitcoins with no > hardware at all and won't need one single watt of electricity. > > *> That would be like a program/subject exploiting the infinite > computations emulating it below its substitution level. Yes we do that, > necessarliyly so, in arithmetic and provably in the Mechanist theory). It > looks weird, but is not weirder than Quantum physics* > That would explain why I'm not super mega ultra rich, I believe in theology X, but unlike me you believe in theology Y, unlike me you believe that calculations can be made without matter or energy, so why aren't you a Bitcoin billionaire? In fact why aren't you a God? Because phantom metaphysical calculations are not nearly as good as real calculations made with Physical Turing Machines. > > >> The first problem is you don't know what the word "assumption" means >> in English. > > > *> I don’t see an argument. Nor even an example, or any clues to suggest > this. * > I maintain that is something works it works and if something doesn't work it doesn't work, and I further maintain that is not an assumption that is a fact. And making a calculation without matter that obeys the laws of physics does not work. > *God is define by* [...] > Bruno, I already know the meaning of all common English words and have no desire to study Brunospeak because even if I learned it today it mutates so fast my knowledge would be out of date by tomorrow. > > *Unlike Bruce’s materialism, your materialist position is inconsistent, > as you defend Mechanism together with materialism, but then you have to > explain how matter makes some computation real,* > No I do not have ti do anything. If scientists could explain every observation they'd be out of a job. And one of my observations is that only calculations made with a physical Turing Machine are able to *do* things, another observation is that phantom metaphysical calculations are not worth a bucket of warm spit. Three cheers for inductive reasoning! John K Clark > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0QS39RcpZF96WySFDic%2BDAAUnEt8g5X_F8c1-EhiO2VQ%40mail.gmail.com.
