On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 01:15, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 7:47:44 AM UTC-6, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le jeu. 19 sept. 2019 à 15:37, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 5:02:11 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16 Sep 2019, at 17:18, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 9:00:46 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 14 Sep 2019, at 05:22, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 4:08:23 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 10:26 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> *> Carroll also believes that IF the universe is infinite, then >>>>>>> there must exist exact copies of universes and ourselves. This is >>>>>>> frequently claimed by the MWI true believers, but never, AFAICT, >>>>>>> proven, or >>>>>>> even plausibly argued. What's the argument for such a claim?* >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course it's been proven! It's simple math, there are only a finite >>>>>> number of ways the atoms in your body, or even the entire OBSERVABLE >>>>>> universe, can be arranged so obviously if the entire universe is infinite >>>>>> then there is going to have to be copies, an infinite number of them in >>>>>> fact. Max Tegmark has even calculated how far you'd have to go to >>>>>> see such a thing. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What I think you're missing (and Tegmark) is the possibility of >>>>> UNcountable universes. In such case, one could imagine new universes >>>>> coming >>>>> into existence forever and ever, without any repeats. Think of the number >>>>> of points between 0 and 1 on the real line, each point associated with a >>>>> different universe. AG >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tegmark missed this? >>>>> >>>>> Deutsch did not, and in his book “fabric of reality”, he gave rather >>>>> good argument in favour of Everett-type of multiverse having non countable >>>>> universe. That makes sense with mechanism which give raise to a continuum >>>>> (2^aleph_0) of histories, but the “equivalence class” brought by the >>>>> measure can have lower cardinality, or bigger. Open problem, to say the >>>>> least. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *What you're not addressing is that with uncountable universes -- which >>>> I haven't categorically denied could arise -- it's not obvious that any >>>> repeats necessarily occur. I don't believe any repeats occur. AG * >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I assume the mechanist hypothesis, which shows that the repeat exist, >>>> indeendly of the cardinality of the number of histories. At some point the >>>> difference are not more relevant, due to the Digital mechanist truncate, >>>> which makes the repeats even more numerous in the non countable case. >>>> >>> >>> *I don't believe in repeats and I haven't seen any proofs that they >>> occur, just assertions from the usual suspects. AG * >>> >> >> Imagine a movie in 1280x720 pixels, then the same in 1920x1080 pixels >> then in 3840x2160 pixels... always the same but with more and more >> "precision", once you are at the correct substitution level (the level at >> which your consciousness is preserved) then any more precise simulation >> thant the ones at the correct level (which exists by assumption and there >> are an infinity of them) does not make any difference, but there are an >> infinity of them (at the correct level and below it). >> > > Let's suppose we correspond possible universes with the positive integers, > and also assume there's a property with uncountable outcomes, such as a > continuous mass in some range for any particle of your choice. No matter > how many countable universes you can imagine, there's no necessity for any > repeats of the mass of your particle; hence, no repeats of any universe. AG > If finite precision of a continuous quantity is used, the outcomes are not uncountable. > -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAH%3D2ypUJTwp-C943iaaJ_pqPq%3Dsi8hv%3DLLhnqY3BddxBvs8b5Q%40mail.gmail.com.
