On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 2:31:18 PM UTC-6, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 01:15, Alan Grayson <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> >> >> On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 7:47:44 AM UTC-6, Quentin Anciaux >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le jeu. 19 sept. 2019 à 15:37, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >>> écrit : >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 5:02:11 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 16 Sep 2019, at 17:18, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 9:00:46 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 14 Sep 2019, at 05:22, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 4:08:23 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 10:26 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *> Carroll also believes that IF the universe is infinite, then >>>>>>>> there must exist exact copies of universes and ourselves. This is >>>>>>>> frequently claimed by the MWI true believers, but never, AFAICT, >>>>>>>> proven, or >>>>>>>> even plausibly argued. What's the argument for such a claim?* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course it's been proven! It's simple math, there are only a >>>>>>> finite number of ways the atoms in your body, or even the entire >>>>>>> OBSERVABLE >>>>>>> universe, can be arranged so obviously if the entire universe is >>>>>>> infinite >>>>>>> then there is going to have to be copies, an infinite number of them in >>>>>>> fact. Max Tegmark has even calculated how far you'd have to go to >>>>>>> see such a thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What I think you're missing (and Tegmark) is the possibility of >>>>>> UNcountable universes. In such case, one could imagine new universes >>>>>> coming >>>>>> into existence forever and ever, without any repeats. Think of the >>>>>> number >>>>>> of points between 0 and 1 on the real line, each point associated with a >>>>>> different universe. AG >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tegmark missed this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Deutsch did not, and in his book “fabric of reality”, he gave rather >>>>>> good argument in favour of Everett-type of multiverse having non >>>>>> countable >>>>>> universe. That makes sense with mechanism which give raise to a >>>>>> continuum >>>>>> (2^aleph_0) of histories, but the “equivalence class” brought by the >>>>>> measure can have lower cardinality, or bigger. Open problem, to say the >>>>>> least. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *What you're not addressing is that with uncountable universes -- >>>>> which I haven't categorically denied could arise -- it's not obvious that >>>>> any repeats necessarily occur. I don't believe any repeats occur. AG * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I assume the mechanist hypothesis, which shows that the repeat exist, >>>>> indeendly of the cardinality of the number of histories. At some point >>>>> the >>>>> difference are not more relevant, due to the Digital mechanist truncate, >>>>> which makes the repeats even more numerous in the non countable case. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *I don't believe in repeats and I haven't seen any proofs that they >>>> occur, just assertions from the usual suspects. AG * >>>> >>> >>> Imagine a movie in 1280x720 pixels, then the same in 1920x1080 pixels >>> then in 3840x2160 pixels... always the same but with more and more >>> "precision", once you are at the correct substitution level (the level at >>> which your consciousness is preserved) then any more precise simulation >>> thant the ones at the correct level (which exists by assumption and there >>> are an infinity of them) does not make any difference, but there are an >>> infinity of them (at the correct level and below it). >>> >> >> Let's suppose we correspond possible universes with the positive >> integers, and also assume there's a property with uncountable outcomes, >> such as a continuous mass in some range for any particle of your choice. No >> matter how many countable universes you can imagine, there's no necessity >> for any repeats of the mass of your particle; hence, no repeats of any >> universe. AG >> > > If finite precision of a continuous quantity is used, the outcomes are not > uncountable. > >> -- > Stathis Papaioannou >
I specifically used a COUNTABLE model as a possible counter example of the necessary existence of copies. AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ab6cfd28-020b-46c0-930c-0a94e2dab7d8%40googlegroups.com.
