On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 3:45:40 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Jun 2020, at 11:52, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > > On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 4:43:59 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> So when I say that a number can think, observe, or even just be (Turing) >> universal, it is always a short manner to say that relatively to some >> “base” phi_i, that number belongs to a (true) relation making it mirroring >> perfectly (at the mechanist substitution level) the behaviour of a person, >> as related to its brain. >> >> Bruno >> >> > > But can it be conscious? > > > > If “it” means the body, or the (extensional) number, the answer is no. > Now, the person associated to all equivalent relative states can be > conscious. Indeed, all relative universal number in arithmetic initiate a > consciousness flux, and the physical reality emerges from that internal > arithmetic flux, somehow. To be continued. > > Bruno > > No one but me and you will probably even look at the abstracts of this fall's *The Science of Consciousnes*s conference (online presentations)
https://eagle.sbs.arizona.edu/sc/abs_report_bysession.php?p=C (these are just the 139 concurrent session papers) but there's a lot of stuff that might be fun to read (for those who have any imagination), like *How In The Penrose-Hameroff Paradigm The Forms of Space-time Curvatures Can Be Connected With The Eternal Platonic Ideas Or Forms In The Qualia Of Our Experiences And Choices* Gerard Blommestijn (Amstelveen, Netherlands) The Penrose-Hameroff paradigm plays a crucial role in the current shift from a causal and local (classical physics) view of brain processes to a quantum-mechanical indeterministic and non-local, entanglement view. The most important ingredient is the Orchestrated Objective Reduction process (Orch OR). Each Orch OR event is a self-selection of space-time geometry, coupled to the brain via microtubules and other biomolecules. Each instantaneous (and non-computable) Orch OR or self-collapse is equated with a discrete conscious event, a perception or a choice, the outcome of the Orch OR. Roger Penrose has contended that, at a deeper level of description, the choice of which outcome of an Orch OR event will occur (which of the superposed space-time geometries will become real) may arise as a result of a presently unknown non-computational mathematical/physical (i.e. Platonic realm) theory, that is it cannot be deduced algorithmically. In my presentation I want to suggest what the outline of such a non-computational theory might look like: The central idea is that the outcome of an Orch OR is not determined by an already existing hidden variable, but by a non computable free choice of the ontologically independent consciousness essence, the I of the mind, defined as abstract Ego by John Von Neumann. In the common non-quantum mechanical view of brain processes the Neural Correlates of Consciousness (NCC) must somehow encode all details of the sensory and mental experiences that we have at a given moment, as well as all choices for physical and mental movement that we make at that time. Similarly the space-time geometry selected in an Orch OR process must contain the same detailed information of all these qualia of the total of our experience and choose perspective in the coded form of space-time curvatures in the substrate in which they are located. These space-time curvatures arise from the mass distribution in the biomolecules involved, such as tubulin in microtubules, and can be described by the respective metric tensor field. We could imagine this coding of qualia by space-time curvatures, much as meanings are coded for by letters, sentences, paragraphs. Then all aspects and elements of the total of our experiences and choices at a certain moment can be considered to be made up of both elementary and compound Platonic ideas or forms. As a result, the Platonic ideas are not only limited to mathematical ideas such as point, line, circle, number or to ideas like beauty, courage, love, etc.,but are applied very generally and generously to all senses, thoughts, feelings, as well as to all aspects of choices, decisions, plans, visions. The primitives of these experiences etc. (e.g. this color green, this sound on the piano, this artistic feeling), these elementals are used as letters in words to build up the sentences and paragraphs of the total of our experiences and choices. Because they together form the space-time geometry selected in an Orch OR, they must be coded by fundamental space-time geometry letters, phrases etc. Crazy. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fd3f86b5-6fdf-432e-abf3-2b0ecc7cfa77o%40googlegroups.com.
