Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 16:04, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a écrit :
> > > On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 6:26:50 AM UTC-7 Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 13:38, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 5:14:33 AM UTC-7 Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 12:19, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >>>> écrit : >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 3:56:50 AM UTC-7 Quentin Anciaux >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 11:54, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >>>>>> écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 10:19:59 PM UTC-7 Pierz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 12:09:06 PM UTC+11 >>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 3:56:51 PM UTC-7 [email protected] >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:21 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *> The MWI doesn't guarantee that these subsequent measurements, >>>>>>>>>>> for subsequent horse races say, are occurring in the SAME OTHER >>>>>>>>>>> worlds as >>>>>>>>>>> trials progress, to get ensembles in those OTHER worlds. * >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't know what you mean by "SAME OTHER worlds", the same as >>>>>>>>>> what? In one world Alan Grayson remembers having seen the electron >>>>>>>>>> go left, >>>>>>>>>> in another world Alan Grayson remembers having seen the electron go >>>>>>>>>> right, >>>>>>>>>> other than that the two worlds are absolutely identical, so which >>>>>>>>>> one was >>>>>>>>>> the "SAME OTHER world"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > You seem to avoid the fact that no where does the MWI guarantee >>>>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Quantum mechanics is not in the guarantee business, it deals with >>>>>>>>>> probability. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *> I don't think you understand my point, which isn't >>>>>>>>>>> complicated. * >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, your point is very simple indeed, but the word simple can >>>>>>>>>> have 2 meanings, one of them is complementary and the other not >>>>>>>>>> so much. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In first trial, the MWI postulates other worlds comes into >>>>>>>>> existence. Same other worlds in second trial? Same other worlds in >>>>>>>>> third >>>>>>>>> trial, etc? Where does the MWI assert these other worlds are the SAME >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> worlds? Unless it does, you only have ONE measurement in each of these >>>>>>>>> worlds. No probability exists in these other worlds since no ensemble >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> measurements exist in these other world. AG >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You grossly misunderstand MWI. There are no "same other" worlds. >>>>>>>> The worlds that arise at each trial are different in precisely one way >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> one way only: the eigenvalue recorded for the experiment. The different >>>>>>>> eigenvalues will then give rise to a "wave of differentiations" as the >>>>>>>> consequences of that singular difference ramifies, causing the >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> worlds generated by the original experimental difference to multiply. >>>>>>>> "World" really means a unique configuration of the universal wave >>>>>>>> function, >>>>>>>> so two worlds at different trials can't possibly be the "same world", >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> yes, there is only one measurement in each. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *If there is only one measurement in each other world -- which has >>>>>>> been my claim throughout -- how can Born's rule be satisfied in the >>>>>>> MWI? AG* >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Every world has a past... So if you do n experiments after n trials >>>>>> you have 2^n number of worlds each having a past of n trials. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *On the second trial and another splitting, what is the assurance that >>>>> the new other world is the same as that created on the first splitting, so >>>>> a sequence of measurement history exists? AG* >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>> It has the same past, if you say you'll do 9 trials in advance, then >>>> most "worlds" after your 9 trials will have done 9 trials(without >>>> considering ultra low probability worlds) and all nine worlds will share >>>> the same past before any trials. >>>> >>> >>> *So the assurance I seek is simply your claim that it is so? AG * >>> >> >> No that's what MWI claims... if you claim otherwise... well simply that's >> not MWI... but your own theory... that you can't use to say anything about >> MWI because your theory is not MWI. >> > > *I am asking how you get that claim from the SWE, if it's not an > independent postulate. AG * > That all results are realized... so at every trials all possible results results.. and each worlds "split/differentiate" at each moments.... and each worlds has a past. So starting at time t... at t1 you have all possible split having t has ancestor... etc... no independent postulate needed... but your theory that a world exists with no past is complete nonsense. and it's not MWI. > >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is precisely the stipulation of MWI. If we have a quantum >>>>>>>> experiment with two eigenvalues 1 and 0, and each is equally likely >>>>>>>> per the >>>>>>>> Born rule, then the MWI interpretation is that - effectively - two >>>>>>>> worlds >>>>>>>> are created. You, the experimenter, end up in both, each version >>>>>>>> knowing >>>>>>>> nothing about the other. So, in the "objective world" (the view from >>>>>>>> outside the whole wave function as it were), no probability is >>>>>>>> involved. >>>>>>>> But if you repeat this experiment many times, each version of you will >>>>>>>> record an apparently random sequence of 1s and 0s. Your best >>>>>>>> prediction of >>>>>>>> what happens in the next experiment is that it's a 50/50 toss up >>>>>>>> between 1 >>>>>>>> and 0. Objectively there's no randomness, subjectively it appears that >>>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> John K Clark See my new list at Extropolis >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d71dbf38-5943-4f9f-9f1a-f7c5ea822c4cn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d71dbf38-5943-4f9f-9f1a-f7c5ea822c4cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2038e98e-2690-4a12-9516-43691b1694aan%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2038e98e-2690-4a12-9516-43691b1694aan%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/82b34ce0-db35-44be-ba8f-ec9d27448988n%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/82b34ce0-db35-44be-ba8f-ec9d27448988n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/976e37fd-1b07-4594-b1b8-b01b4bde9e13n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/976e37fd-1b07-4594-b1b8-b01b4bde9e13n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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