On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 6:26:50 AM UTC-7 Quentin Anciaux wrote:
> Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 13:38, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a > écrit : > >> >> >> On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 5:14:33 AM UTC-7 Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 12:19, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >>> écrit : >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 3:56:50 AM UTC-7 Quentin Anciaux >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 11:54, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >>>>> écrit : >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 10:19:59 PM UTC-7 Pierz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 12:09:06 PM UTC+11 [email protected] >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 3:56:51 PM UTC-7 [email protected] >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:21 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *> The MWI doesn't guarantee that these subsequent measurements, >>>>>>>>>> for subsequent horse races say, are occurring in the SAME OTHER >>>>>>>>>> worlds as >>>>>>>>>> trials progress, to get ensembles in those OTHER worlds. * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't know what you mean by "SAME OTHER worlds", the same as >>>>>>>>> what? In one world Alan Grayson remembers having seen the electron go >>>>>>>>> left, >>>>>>>>> in another world Alan Grayson remembers having seen the electron go >>>>>>>>> right, >>>>>>>>> other than that the two worlds are absolutely identical, so which one >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> the "SAME OTHER world"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > You seem to avoid the fact that no where does the MWI guarantee >>>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quantum mechanics is not in the guarantee business, it deals with >>>>>>>>> probability. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *> I don't think you understand my point, which isn't >>>>>>>>>> complicated. * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, your point is very simple indeed, but the word simple can >>>>>>>>> have 2 meanings, one of them is complementary and the other not >>>>>>>>> so much. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In first trial, the MWI postulates other worlds comes into >>>>>>>> existence. Same other worlds in second trial? Same other worlds in >>>>>>>> third >>>>>>>> trial, etc? Where does the MWI assert these other worlds are the SAME >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> worlds? Unless it does, you only have ONE measurement in each of these >>>>>>>> worlds. No probability exists in these other worlds since no ensemble >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> measurements exist in these other world. AG >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You grossly misunderstand MWI. There are no "same other" worlds. The >>>>>>> worlds that arise at each trial are different in precisely one way and >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> way only: the eigenvalue recorded for the experiment. The different >>>>>>> eigenvalues will then give rise to a "wave of differentiations" as the >>>>>>> consequences of that singular difference ramifies, causing the >>>>>>> different >>>>>>> worlds generated by the original experimental difference to multiply. >>>>>>> "World" really means a unique configuration of the universal wave >>>>>>> function, >>>>>>> so two worlds at different trials can't possibly be the "same world", >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> yes, there is only one measurement in each. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *If there is only one measurement in each other world -- which has >>>>>> been my claim throughout -- how can Born's rule be satisfied in the MWI? >>>>>> AG* >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Every world has a past... So if you do n experiments after n trials >>>>> you have 2^n number of worlds each having a past of n trials. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *On the second trial and another splitting, what is the assurance that >>>> the new other world is the same as that created on the first splitting, so >>>> a sequence of measurement history exists? AG* >>>> >>> >> >>> It has the same past, if you say you'll do 9 trials in advance, then >>> most "worlds" after your 9 trials will have done 9 trials(without >>> considering ultra low probability worlds) and all nine worlds will share >>> the same past before any trials. >>> >> >> *So the assurance I seek is simply your claim that it is so? AG * >> > > No that's what MWI claims... if you claim otherwise... well simply that's > not MWI... but your own theory... that you can't use to say anything about > MWI because your theory is not MWI. > *I am asking how you get that claim from the SWE, if it's not an independent postulate. AG * > >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> That is precisely the stipulation of MWI. If we have a quantum >>>>>>> experiment with two eigenvalues 1 and 0, and each is equally likely per >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Born rule, then the MWI interpretation is that - effectively - two >>>>>>> worlds >>>>>>> are created. You, the experimenter, end up in both, each version >>>>>>> knowing >>>>>>> nothing about the other. So, in the "objective world" (the view from >>>>>>> outside the whole wave function as it were), no probability is >>>>>>> involved. >>>>>>> But if you repeat this experiment many times, each version of you will >>>>>>> record an apparently random sequence of 1s and 0s. Your best prediction >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> what happens in the next experiment is that it's a 50/50 toss up >>>>>>> between 1 >>>>>>> and 0. Objectively there's no randomness, subjectively it appears that >>>>>>> way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John K Clark See my new list at Extropolis >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d71dbf38-5943-4f9f-9f1a-f7c5ea822c4cn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d71dbf38-5943-4f9f-9f1a-f7c5ea822c4cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2038e98e-2690-4a12-9516-43691b1694aan%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2038e98e-2690-4a12-9516-43691b1694aan%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/82b34ce0-db35-44be-ba8f-ec9d27448988n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/82b34ce0-db35-44be-ba8f-ec9d27448988n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > Batty/Rutger Hauer) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/976e37fd-1b07-4594-b1b8-b01b4bde9e13n%40googlegroups.com.
