Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 13:38, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a écrit :
> > > On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 5:14:33 AM UTC-7 Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 12:19, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 3:56:50 AM UTC-7 Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le mer. 27 janv. 2021 à 11:54, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >>>> écrit : >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 10:19:59 PM UTC-7 Pierz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 12:09:06 PM UTC+11 [email protected] >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, January 3, 2021 at 3:56:51 PM UTC-7 [email protected] >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:21 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *> The MWI doesn't guarantee that these subsequent measurements, >>>>>>>>> for subsequent horse races say, are occurring in the SAME OTHER >>>>>>>>> worlds as >>>>>>>>> trials progress, to get ensembles in those OTHER worlds. * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't know what you mean by "SAME OTHER worlds", the same as >>>>>>>> what? In one world Alan Grayson remembers having seen the electron go >>>>>>>> left, >>>>>>>> in another world Alan Grayson remembers having seen the electron go >>>>>>>> right, >>>>>>>> other than that the two worlds are absolutely identical, so which one >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> the "SAME OTHER world"? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > You seem to avoid the fact that no where does the MWI guarantee >>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quantum mechanics is not in the guarantee business, it deals with >>>>>>>> probability. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *> I don't think you understand my point, which isn't complicated. * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, your point is very simple indeed, but the word simple can >>>>>>>> have 2 meanings, one of them is complementary and the other not so >>>>>>>> much. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In first trial, the MWI postulates other worlds comes into >>>>>>> existence. Same other worlds in second trial? Same other worlds in third >>>>>>> trial, etc? Where does the MWI assert these other worlds are the SAME >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> worlds? Unless it does, you only have ONE measurement in each of these >>>>>>> worlds. No probability exists in these other worlds since no ensemble of >>>>>>> measurements exist in these other world. AG >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You grossly misunderstand MWI. There are no "same other" worlds. The >>>>>> worlds that arise at each trial are different in precisely one way and >>>>>> one >>>>>> way only: the eigenvalue recorded for the experiment. The different >>>>>> eigenvalues will then give rise to a "wave of differentiations" as the >>>>>> consequences of that singular difference ramifies, causing the different >>>>>> worlds generated by the original experimental difference to multiply. >>>>>> "World" really means a unique configuration of the universal wave >>>>>> function, >>>>>> so two worlds at different trials can't possibly be the "same world", and >>>>>> yes, there is only one measurement in each. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *If there is only one measurement in each other world -- which has >>>>> been my claim throughout -- how can Born's rule be satisfied in the MWI? >>>>> AG* >>>>> >>>> >>>> Every world has a past... So if you do n experiments after n trials you >>>> have 2^n number of worlds each having a past of n trials. >>>> >>> >>> *On the second trial and another splitting, what is the assurance that >>> the new other world is the same as that created on the first splitting, so >>> a sequence of measurement history exists? AG* >>> >> > >> It has the same past, if you say you'll do 9 trials in advance, then most >> "worlds" after your 9 trials will have done 9 trials(without considering >> ultra low probability worlds) and all nine worlds will share the same past >> before any trials. >> > > *So the assurance I seek is simply your claim that it is so? AG * > No that's what MWI claims... if you claim otherwise... well simply that's not MWI... but your own theory... that you can't use to say anything about MWI because your theory is not MWI. > >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> That is precisely the stipulation of MWI. If we have a quantum >>>>>> experiment with two eigenvalues 1 and 0, and each is equally likely per >>>>>> the >>>>>> Born rule, then the MWI interpretation is that - effectively - two worlds >>>>>> are created. You, the experimenter, end up in both, each version knowing >>>>>> nothing about the other. So, in the "objective world" (the view from >>>>>> outside the whole wave function as it were), no probability is involved. >>>>>> But if you repeat this experiment many times, each version of you will >>>>>> record an apparently random sequence of 1s and 0s. Your best prediction >>>>>> of >>>>>> what happens in the next experiment is that it's a 50/50 toss up between >>>>>> 1 >>>>>> and 0. Objectively there's no randomness, subjectively it appears that >>>>>> way. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John K Clark See my new list at Extropolis >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d71dbf38-5943-4f9f-9f1a-f7c5ea822c4cn%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d71dbf38-5943-4f9f-9f1a-f7c5ea822c4cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2038e98e-2690-4a12-9516-43691b1694aan%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2038e98e-2690-4a12-9516-43691b1694aan%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/82b34ce0-db35-44be-ba8f-ec9d27448988n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/82b34ce0-db35-44be-ba8f-ec9d27448988n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAMW2kArTQYFuUCkrEXrvN7S8LaOmkHayX7EYA9vWrUPx3y8b-A%40mail.gmail.com.
