On 2/28/2022 3:11 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 8:02 AM John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 3:31 PM Brent Meeker
<meekerbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
/If the universe started out in some definite state and it
evolved deterministically then that it produced humans who
did certain things is no more remarkable than if had
produced Martians who did something different. /
No, it's saying that whenever humans did an experiment in physics
and changed something in a way they thought was random and
concluded from the experiment that the universe was random and
non-local they were actually being fooled because what they
thought was random was not random at all, instead it was a part
of a grand conspiracy that started 13.8 billion years ago from a
very very specific initial state that resulted in humans always
being fooled no matter how many times they repeated such
experiments. The only reason somebody would concoct such a
ridiculous theory is that for whatever reason they just didn't
like the Many Worlds idea and were desperate to do something,
anything, to avoid it
It is not Many Worlds that Hossenfelder rejects. It is, rather, the
idea of non-locality. Her rejection of the implications of Bell's
theorem for the possibility of a local explanation of the Bell-type
correlations is based on a rejection of the idea of 'statistical
independence'. In other words, she wants to allow the distribution of
hidden variables to depend on the settings of both remote detectors,
whereas locality would rule this out.
Presumably because they are both determined by some common cause in the
overlap of their past light cones. But that's a kind of science
defeating conclusion: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1407.0363.pdf because it is
also the settings of the detectors depending on the hidden variable values.
Brent
Since MWI does not violate 'statistical independence', either, MWI
does not provide a solution that Hossenfelder would accept.
My main criticism of superdeterminism as Hossenfelder presents it, is
that she does not give a mechanism whereby statistical independence is
violated -- she does not explain how particular hidden variables that
depend on both settings of the final measurement instruments could
actually determine the outcome of the correlation experiments. The
main point is that for non-aligned polarizers, the measurement
outcomes are not deterministic but, rather, probabilistic. In order
for these probabilities to determine the observed correlations, there
must be correlations (or dependence) between repeats of the
measurements. Hossenfelder does not give any account of the necessary
non-locality over time.
In other words, her mathematical point, while valid, does not
translate into a physical theory.
Bruce
If they really believed in superdeterminism then there would be no
point in conducting scientific experiments at all because the
universe is perverse and will always lie to them so the entire
scientific method is invalid. You couldn't even trust your own
memories or thoughts because the universe has been engineered from
the start to make fools of us, so even thinking is a waste of
time. I thought the holy rollers who say the universe is only 4000
years old and God buried dinosaur bones to fool humans and test
their faith were bad, but this is worse, much much worse.
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
lqg
sua
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