On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 8:02 AM John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 3:31 PM Brent Meeker <meekerbr...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > * If the universe started out in some definite state and it evolved >>> deterministically then that it produced humans who did certain things is no >>> more remarkable than if had produced Martians who did something different. * >>> >> > No, it's saying that whenever humans did an experiment in physics and > changed something in a way they thought was random and concluded from the > experiment that the universe was random and non-local they were actually > being fooled because what they thought was random was not random at all, > instead it was a part of a grand conspiracy that started 13.8 billion > years ago from a very very specific initial state that resulted in humans > always being fooled no matter how many times they repeated such > experiments. The only reason somebody would concoct such a ridiculous > theory is that for whatever reason they just didn't like the Many Worlds > idea and were desperate to do something, anything, to avoid it > It is not Many Worlds that Hossenfelder rejects. It is, rather, the idea of non-locality. Her rejection of the implications of Bell's theorem for the possibility of a local explanation of the Bell-type correlations is based on a rejection of the idea of 'statistical independence'. In other words, she wants to allow the distribution of hidden variables to depend on the settings of both remote detectors, whereas locality would rule this out. Since MWI does not violate 'statistical independence', either, MWI does not provide a solution that Hossenfelder would accept. My main criticism of superdeterminism as Hossenfelder presents it, is that she does not give a mechanism whereby statistical independence is violated -- she does not explain how particular hidden variables that depend on both settings of the final measurement instruments could actually determine the outcome of the correlation experiments. The main point is that for non-aligned polarizers, the measurement outcomes are not deterministic but, rather, probabilistic. In order for these probabilities to determine the observed correlations, there must be correlations (or dependence) between repeats of the measurements. Hossenfelder does not give any account of the necessary non-locality over time. In other words, her mathematical point, while valid, does not translate into a physical theory. Bruce > If they really believed in superdeterminism then there would be no point > in conducting scientific experiments at all because the universe is > perverse and will always lie to them so the entire scientific method is > invalid. You couldn't even trust your own memories or thoughts because the > universe has been engineered from the start to make fools of us, so even > thinking is a waste of time. I thought the holy rollers who say the > universe is only 4000 years old and God buried dinosaur bones to fool > humans and test their faith were bad, but this is worse, much much worse. > > John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis > <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> > lqg > > sua > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1tZ5cg-5OHt795Dk0%3DBk8HjfP7u1xFoMaG%3D6ZrPG9KUQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1tZ5cg-5OHt795Dk0%3DBk8HjfP7u1xFoMaG%3D6ZrPG9KUQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAFxXSLTeKAZrm56WRyfy2uDHAdNo1hA7SNn7sS5rKGsJznjLxQ%40mail.gmail.com.
