On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 6:07 PM Brent Meeker <meekerbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> >>>> Determinism just means a future state of the universe can be
>>> calculated from the information in a previous date, but it says nothing
>>> about the initial condition of the universe. Superdeterminism says in
>>> addition that out of all the huge, and possibly infinite, number of states
>>> the universe could've started out in it started out in the one in only
>>> state that would not only produce humans after 13.8 billion years but
>>> humans who would always just happen to perform the wrong experiments so
>>> that they would always be fooled into thinking that the universe was random
>>> and non-local when in reality it was neither. And it's literally impossible
>>> for there to be a theory with a greater violation of Occam's razor than that
>>> .
>>
>>
>
> * >>> That's like saying it's violation of Occam's razor that some buy won
>> a million dollars in the lottery because it was so improbable that he won.
>> If the universe started out in some definite state and it evolved
>> deterministically then that it produced humans who did certain things is no
>> more remarkable than if had produced Martians who did something different. *
>>
>
> >> No, it's saying that whenever humans did an experiment in physics and
> changed something in a way they thought was random and concluded from the
> experiment that the universe was random and non-local they were actually
> being fooled because what they thought was random was not random at all,
>  instead it was a part of a grand conspiracy that started 13.8 billion
> years ago from a very very specific initial state that resulted in humans
> always being fooled no matter how many times they repeated such
> experiments.
>
> * > So you think their decisions were not deterministic;*
>

I don't know if human actions are determined or not, but one thing I do
know is that it's either deterministic or it's not deterministic, and if
it's not deterministic, if it doesn't have a cause, then it must be random
because that's what "random" means. Free Will on the other hand doesn't mean
anything .

  > *If they were deterministic they were determined by any Cauchy slice of
> their past light cone, including the one 13.8 billion years ago.*


Correct.


>  > *There's no "consipiracy to it; *


Incorrect. If superdeterminism is correct then out of the huge, and
possibly infinite number of states the initial condition of the universe
could've been in 13.8 billion years ago, it was in the one and only state
that would fool human beings 13.8 billion years in the future into thinking
that the many world's idea is correct when really it was not. I admit it's
not technically impossible for such a thing to occur by random chance, but
the likelihood of it occurring would, by comparison, make it almost a sure
thing that by random chance in the next five seconds the second law of
thermodynamics will be violated and all the air molecules in the room
you're in right now will dramatically decrease in entropy and, because all
air will be concentrated in one square inch in the lower southwest corner,
you will suffocate to death.

*> that implies some intelligence agent arranging it.  *


Indeed it does because there is only one chance in an astronomical number
to an astronomical power to an astronomical power of that happening
randomly. And because it requires an intelligent designer to begin the
universe, and an intelligent designer that is obsessed with making fools of
human beings, that's just one of the many reasons why superdeterminism is
idiotic. No other cosmological theory requires that the universe have one
and only one very specific initial condition, and that's why
superdeterminism is such a gross violator of Occam's razor.

*> You don't believe in free will,*


I neither believe nor disbelieve in free will because the free will "idea"
is so bad it's not even wrong, and that is a pretty good definition of
gibberish.

 > but you believe in statistically independent will.


If I knew what  "statistically independent will" meant I might be able to
say if I believed in it or not.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
gib

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