On 11/16/2024 4:28 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Nov 15, 2024 at 9:28 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]>
wrote:
/> Maybe we're disagreeing about what "local" or maybe "realism"
means. I think it means that at the creation of the two photons
their polarizations are fixed (realism) at the same direction,
which varies randomly from pair to pair (non-deterministic), and
they interact at the detectors indpendently (local). Those
conditions imply Bell's inequality. Right? /
*In this case "realism" would mean the photon pairs will always have
opposite polarizations and the axis of polarization has always pointed
to one _AND ONLY ONE_ definite direction. *
That's not what I wrote. First, whether the polarization of the two
photons is the same or opposite is irrelevant for linear polarizers at
the detectors. Second, I don't why you imagine that realism requires
that the plane always be pointed in the same direction. Everybody else
defines realism as I did above: each pair has some definite plane. I
specifically stated the plane varying randomly in direction is what
makes the experiment non-deterministic.
*People like Roger Penrose would say there is only one pair of photons
so the "and only one" part *
Who are quoting?
*is unnecessary because the Many Worlds idea is just too strange to be
true, or even to be worthy of thought. However I note that although
sir Roger calls it absurd even he doesn't claim it's logically
contradictory. *
OK, but I don't know how Penrose is relevant to this conversation. I've
stated my specific criticisms of MWI and they are not Penrose's.
Brent
/> I don't think OC theories are local. At each detector the
collapse is random, but not the photons don't share the*same*
random value./
*Yeah, that's a valid point.I think I got a little over my skis when I
said objective collapse was local; it's realistic but non-local and
nondeterministic. *
*John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
pvt
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