@Terren. Is not a matter of proving. Is a matter of you becoming conscious of consciousness. Is a matter of you properly understanding what the concepts involved mean. For example, in your understanding, what does "to exist" mean ?
On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:17:57 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: > Believe it or not, I'm sympathetic to that kind of theory of reality. It's > not far from what I personally believe. > > But at the end of the day, you cannot prove it. Can you admit that? > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 9:13 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> @Terren. You don't understand what you are. You are God. Once you >> understand why you are God, you also understand why only you exists. It has >> to do with what "to exist" means. "To exists" means to have >> form/meaning/quality. As such, only qualia exist, because "qualia" is just >> a synonymous for "existence". And qualia are the way in which you as God >> understand yourself. That's what reality is: is the process through which >> God knows itself. As such, there can be nothing else. >> >> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:06:45 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >> >>> I exist, consciousness exists. There's no question about that, for me. >>> >>> What is unprovable is the claim "nothing else exists except >>> consciousness". >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 8:08 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> @Terren. So you're not sure if you exist ? >>>> >>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 03:07:17 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>> >>>>> The claim that "consciousness is all that exists" is metaphysics. You >>>>> cannot prove that, but that doesn't stop you from saying things like >>>>> "energy doesn't exist" as if it were a fact. >>>>> >>>>> The ultimate nature of reality is a mystery. I don't put much stock in >>>>> people who speak in certainties about such things. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 3:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> @Terren. What metaphysics ? Your existence is metaphysics ? Or is a >>>>>> matter of obvious fact ? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 19:18:21 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Prove that you admit everything. Admit that your assertion that >>>>>>> *consciousness >>>>>>> is all that exists* is metaphysical - it cannot be proved. The same >>>>>>> is true of the claim that matter and energy are all that exists. Both >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> metaphysical statements. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 12:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I always admit everything. It seems to you that I don't because I >>>>>>>> keep saying "Consciousness is all there is". While that sentence is >>>>>>>> true, >>>>>>>> so while that proves with 100% certainty that there is no matter, it >>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>> doesn't give the full details of consciousness. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 18:21:13 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think that's the first time you've ever admitted you don't >>>>>>>>> understand something fully. I recommend you keep going in that >>>>>>>>> direction. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 11:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I also said: "if we were to understand consciousness fully, then >>>>>>>>>> we will know for sure what to expect after death." As of today, we >>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> understand consciousness fully. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 16:54:49 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When you said this: "And in case we would expect happiness, then >>>>>>>>>>> we will even stop finding any cure for cancer. We will celebrate >>>>>>>>>>> cancer." >>>>>>>>>>> So instead of celebrating cancer, why not skip the painful parts? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 3:29:59 PM UTC-5 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Where did I say that the next life will be better ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 22:09:01 UTC+2 Terren Suydam >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Serious question - what's stopping you from killing yourself >>>>>>>>>>>>> and speeding up the transition to happiness? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 3:04 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm millionaire, why would I need a job ? Also, if we were to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand consciousness fully, then we will know for sure what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to expect >>>>>>>>>>>>>> after death. And in case we would expect happiness, then we will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> even stop >>>>>>>>>>>>>> finding any cure for cancer. We will celebrate cancer. All of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our current >>>>>>>>>>>>>> decisions are made based on incomplete knowledge of the truth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As such, we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make the decisions based on what we imagine reality to be, not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on what it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:37:03 UTC+2 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 12:30:07 PM UTC-7 Cosmin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It depends what kind of person you are. If you are a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depressed person, curing you of cancer will not do any good. On >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrary, if you would have died you would havd gotten a chance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness in the next life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *You have to be right. Stop your BS, assuming you know more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than you actually do, or get a job, or jerkoff, but no more of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stupidity. AG * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:06:51 UTC+2 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 11:27:28 AM UTC-7 Cosmin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just opened a topic a while back about the definition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the word "useful" that you keep abusing. Let's remind you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Useful = whatever increases happiness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Useless = whatever doesn't increase happiness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My philosophy, I guarantee you 100%, increases happiness, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is useful. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting cured of cancer might still let you depressed, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cancer cure is useless. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *You can't be very conscious and make such a hugely stupid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> comment. Don't ya think that being cured of cancer is immensely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than succumbing to it? AG* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 19:59:29 UTC+2 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 10:44:42 AM UTC-7 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-7 Cosmin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you expect you can properly fix a car if you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how it function ? You just do guesswork, you give it a few >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicks and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe it starts. This is how present-day science works given >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't work based on fundamentals, namely based on the working >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness. Sure, you can keep doing research this way: kick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it till it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works. And you might save a few lives. But if you were start >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamentals, then you would know exactly what you were doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and you will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> save 8 billion lives. Not that it would matter at that point, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given that at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that level of development we will manipulate consciousness to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such a degree >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we will not even need bodies anymore. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *About 60 years ago I met a fellow with your philosophy, a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Master of Yoga, an adept at "Traditional Science", author of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several books, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who claimed with great authority that the problem of cancer had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "solved". He never got cancer but died of a heart failure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around age 80 in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2008. AG* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *My point is that people with your philosophy often make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> huge claims, with rarely anything practical forthcoming. For >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during the Covid pandemic, a company named Moderna produced a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vaccine in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> record time, using knowledge of DNA, viruses, etc. They >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't have done >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that without the discovery of DNA, which no doubt required by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the invention >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the Electron Microscope. Talk is cheap. We can do great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absence of your vague philosophy. Can you actually DO something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it all talk? AG * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:17:26 UTC+2 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:11:38 AM UTC-7 Cosmin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Alan. You can do cancer research. But since that research >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not based on fundamental ideas about reality, it will be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just guesswork: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just try 1000 different drugs and cross fingers that one might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead, if people would actually understand consciousness, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they would cure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cancer in 1 week. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I might believe that if you were able to contribute >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ANYTHING to ANY problem discussed here. All I read are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grandiose claims >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with nothing practical forthcoming. AG* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:08:48 UTC+2 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:01:18 AM UTC-7 Cosmin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can continue cancer research. But is just like playing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> World of Warcraft in order to get the legendary gear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *If you get cancer, which is not my wish, you can tell your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doctor that the pain and suffering is purely imaginary, not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mention the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible early termination of your life. Now, do us all a favor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and cease >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posting like a fool. AG * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 16:48:23 UTC+2 John Clark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *You didn't answer my question. Should cancer research be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stopped, and if not why not? * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 9:35 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You make the classical confusion between epistemology and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ontology. Only because you can watch a movie with Spider-Man >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (epistemology), it doesn't follow that Spider-Man exists >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (ontology). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 15:39:31 UTC+2 John Clark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 8:04 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *>>the question of list moderation would not be relevant at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this time if one very recent list member didn't think page >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after page of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing but "(:>)" characters was an intelligent rebuttal, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and ALL scientific questions of the form "what is the nature of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> X?" can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answered by simply saying "X does not exist".* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *> Of course, given that consciousness is all there is. Why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would you waste time talking about things that don't exist ?* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *So there's no point in doing cancer research because cancer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not exist? Do I have that right? * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f319c6fd-59c0-474d-a489-14eb3361024en%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f319c6fd-59c0-474d-a489-14eb3361024en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8898e6a-2803-42c6-9a2b-dfdc537b5d0en%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8898e6a-2803-42c6-9a2b-dfdc537b5d0en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8b9c897-3fd8-4840-9420-628ee48e7bacn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8b9c897-3fd8-4840-9420-628ee48e7bacn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/eca484a1-d703-470a-a6b0-ac7edca5b396n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/eca484a1-d703-470a-a6b0-ac7edca5b396n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/44642e49-a3e8-4e6c-8964-cb28acb77435n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/44642e49-a3e8-4e6c-8964-cb28acb77435n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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