The claim that "consciousness is all that exists" is metaphysics. You cannot prove that, but that doesn't stop you from saying things like "energy doesn't exist" as if it were a fact.
The ultimate nature of reality is a mystery. I don't put much stock in people who speak in certainties about such things. On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 3:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote: > @Terren. What metaphysics ? Your existence is metaphysics ? Or is a matter > of obvious fact ? > > On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 19:18:21 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: > >> Prove that you admit everything. Admit that your assertion that >> *consciousness >> is all that exists* is metaphysical - it cannot be proved. The same is >> true of the claim that matter and energy are all that exists. Both are >> metaphysical statements. >> >> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 12:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I always admit everything. It seems to you that I don't because I keep >>> saying "Consciousness is all there is". While that sentence is true, so >>> while that proves with 100% certainty that there is no matter, it still >>> doesn't give the full details of consciousness. >>> >>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 18:21:13 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>> >>>> I think that's the first time you've ever admitted you don't understand >>>> something fully. I recommend you keep going in that direction. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 11:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I also said: "if we were to understand consciousness fully, then we >>>>> will know for sure what to expect after death." As of today, we don't >>>>> understand consciousness fully. >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 16:54:49 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> When you said this: "And in case we would expect happiness, then we >>>>>> will even stop finding any cure for cancer. We will celebrate cancer." >>>>>> So >>>>>> instead of celebrating cancer, why not skip the painful parts? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 3:29:59 PM UTC-5 Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Where did I say that the next life will be better ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 22:09:01 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Serious question - what's stopping you from killing yourself and >>>>>>>> speeding up the transition to happiness? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 3:04 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm millionaire, why would I need a job ? Also, if we were to >>>>>>>>> understand consciousness fully, then we will know for sure what to >>>>>>>>> expect >>>>>>>>> after death. And in case we would expect happiness, then we will even >>>>>>>>> stop >>>>>>>>> finding any cure for cancer. We will celebrate cancer. All of our >>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>> decisions are made based on incomplete knowledge of the truth. As >>>>>>>>> such, we >>>>>>>>> make the decisions based on what we imagine reality to be, not on >>>>>>>>> what it >>>>>>>>> actually is. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:37:03 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 12:30:07 PM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It depends what kind of person you are. If you are a depressed >>>>>>>>>> person, curing you of cancer will not do any good. On the contrary, >>>>>>>>>> if you >>>>>>>>>> would have died you would havd gotten a chance at happiness in the >>>>>>>>>> next >>>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *You have to be right. Stop your BS, assuming you know more than >>>>>>>>>> you actually do, or get a job, or jerkoff, but no more of your >>>>>>>>>> stupidity. >>>>>>>>>> AG * >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:06:51 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 11:27:28 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I just opened a topic a while back about the definition of the >>>>>>>>>> word "useful" that you keep abusing. Let's remind you: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Useful = whatever increases happiness. >>>>>>>>>> Useless = whatever doesn't increase happiness. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My philosophy, I guarantee you 100%, increases happiness, so is >>>>>>>>>> useful. >>>>>>>>>> Getting cured of cancer might still let you depressed, so cancer >>>>>>>>>> cure is useless. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *You can't be very conscious and make such a hugely stupid >>>>>>>>>> comment. Don't ya think that being cured of cancer is immensely >>>>>>>>>> happier >>>>>>>>>> than succumbing to it? AG* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 19:59:29 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 10:44:42 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How do you expect you can properly fix a car if you don't know >>>>>>>>>> how it function ? You just do guesswork, you give it a few kicks and >>>>>>>>>> maybe >>>>>>>>>> it starts. This is how present-day science works given that it >>>>>>>>>> doesn't work >>>>>>>>>> based on fundamentals, namely based on the working of consciousness. >>>>>>>>>> Sure, >>>>>>>>>> you can keep doing research this way: kick it till it works. And you >>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>> save a few lives. But if you were start from fundamentals, then you >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>> know exactly what you were doing and you will save 8 billion lives. >>>>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>>>> that it would matter at that point, given that at that level of >>>>>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>> we will manipulate consciousness to such a degree that we will not >>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>> need bodies anymore. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *About 60 years ago I met a fellow with your philosophy, a Master >>>>>>>>>> of Yoga, an adept at "Traditional Science", author of several books, >>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>> claimed with great authority that the problem of cancer had been >>>>>>>>>> "solved". >>>>>>>>>> He never got cancer but died of a heart failure around age 80 in >>>>>>>>>> 2008. AG* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *My point is that people with your philosophy often make huge >>>>>>>>>> claims, with rarely anything practical forthcoming. For example, >>>>>>>>>> during the >>>>>>>>>> Covid pandemic, a company named Moderna produced a vaccine in record >>>>>>>>>> time, >>>>>>>>>> using knowledge of DNA, viruses, etc. They couldn't have done that >>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>> the discovery of DNA, which no doubt required by the invention of the >>>>>>>>>> Electron Microscope. Talk is cheap. We can do great things in the >>>>>>>>>> absence >>>>>>>>>> of your vague philosophy. Can you actually DO something useful, or >>>>>>>>>> is it >>>>>>>>>> all talk? AG * >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:17:26 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:11:38 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Alan. You can do cancer research. But since that research is not >>>>>>>>>> based on fundamental ideas about reality, it will be just guesswork: >>>>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>>>> try 1000 different drugs and cross fingers that one might work. >>>>>>>>>> Instead, if >>>>>>>>>> people would actually understand consciousness, they would cure >>>>>>>>>> cancer in 1 >>>>>>>>>> week. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *I might believe that if you were able to contribute ANYTHING to >>>>>>>>>> ANY problem discussed here. All I read are grandiose claims with >>>>>>>>>> nothing >>>>>>>>>> practical forthcoming. AG* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:08:48 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:01:18 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You can continue cancer research. But is just like playing World >>>>>>>>>> of Warcraft in order to get the legendary gear. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *If you get cancer, which is not my wish, you can tell your >>>>>>>>>> doctor that the pain and suffering is purely imaginary, not to >>>>>>>>>> mention the >>>>>>>>>> possible early termination of your life. Now, do us all a favor and >>>>>>>>>> cease >>>>>>>>>> posting like a fool. AG * >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 16:48:23 UTC+2 John Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *You didn't answer my question. Should cancer research be >>>>>>>>>> stopped, and if not why not? * >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 9:35 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You make the classical confusion between epistemology and >>>>>>>>>> ontology. Only because you can watch a movie with Spider-Man >>>>>>>>>> (epistemology), it doesn't follow that Spider-Man exists (ontology). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 15:39:31 UTC+2 John Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 8:04 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *>>the question of list moderation would not be relevant at this >>>>>>>>>> time if one very recent list member didn't think page after page of >>>>>>>>>> nothing >>>>>>>>>> but "(:>)" characters was an intelligent rebuttal, and ALL scientific >>>>>>>>>> questions of the form "what is the nature of X?" can be answered by >>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>> saying "X does not exist".* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *> Of course, given that consciousness is all there is. Why would >>>>>>>>>> you waste time talking about things that don't exist ?* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *So there's no point in doing cancer research because cancer does >>>>>>>>>> not exist? Do I have that right? * >>>>>>>>>> * John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f319c6fd-59c0-474d-a489-14eb3361024en%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f319c6fd-59c0-474d-a489-14eb3361024en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8898e6a-2803-42c6-9a2b-dfdc537b5d0en%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8898e6a-2803-42c6-9a2b-dfdc537b5d0en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8b9c897-3fd8-4840-9420-628ee48e7bacn%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8b9c897-3fd8-4840-9420-628ee48e7bacn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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