I exist, consciousness exists. There's no question about that, for me. What is unprovable is the claim "nothing else exists except consciousness".
On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 8:08 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote: > @Terren. So you're not sure if you exist ? > > On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 03:07:17 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: > >> The claim that "consciousness is all that exists" is metaphysics. You >> cannot prove that, but that doesn't stop you from saying things like >> "energy doesn't exist" as if it were a fact. >> >> The ultimate nature of reality is a mystery. I don't put much stock in >> people who speak in certainties about such things. >> >> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 3:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> @Terren. What metaphysics ? Your existence is metaphysics ? Or is a >>> matter of obvious fact ? >>> >>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 19:18:21 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>> >>>> Prove that you admit everything. Admit that your assertion that >>>> *consciousness >>>> is all that exists* is metaphysical - it cannot be proved. The same is >>>> true of the claim that matter and energy are all that exists. Both are >>>> metaphysical statements. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 12:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I always admit everything. It seems to you that I don't because I keep >>>>> saying "Consciousness is all there is". While that sentence is true, so >>>>> while that proves with 100% certainty that there is no matter, it still >>>>> doesn't give the full details of consciousness. >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 18:21:13 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think that's the first time you've ever admitted you don't >>>>>> understand something fully. I recommend you keep going in that direction. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 11:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I also said: "if we were to understand consciousness fully, then we >>>>>>> will know for sure what to expect after death." As of today, we don't >>>>>>> understand consciousness fully. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 16:54:49 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When you said this: "And in case we would expect happiness, then we >>>>>>>> will even stop finding any cure for cancer. We will celebrate cancer." >>>>>>>> So >>>>>>>> instead of celebrating cancer, why not skip the painful parts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 3:29:59 PM UTC-5 Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Where did I say that the next life will be better ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 22:09:01 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Serious question - what's stopping you from killing yourself and >>>>>>>>>> speeding up the transition to happiness? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 3:04 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm millionaire, why would I need a job ? Also, if we were to >>>>>>>>>>> understand consciousness fully, then we will know for sure what to >>>>>>>>>>> expect >>>>>>>>>>> after death. And in case we would expect happiness, then we will >>>>>>>>>>> even stop >>>>>>>>>>> finding any cure for cancer. We will celebrate cancer. All of our >>>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>> decisions are made based on incomplete knowledge of the truth. As >>>>>>>>>>> such, we >>>>>>>>>>> make the decisions based on what we imagine reality to be, not on >>>>>>>>>>> what it >>>>>>>>>>> actually is. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:37:03 UTC+2 Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 12:30:07 PM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It depends what kind of person you are. If you are a depressed >>>>>>>>>>>> person, curing you of cancer will not do any good. On the >>>>>>>>>>>> contrary, if you >>>>>>>>>>>> would have died you would havd gotten a chance at happiness in the >>>>>>>>>>>> next >>>>>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *You have to be right. Stop your BS, assuming you know more >>>>>>>>>>>> than you actually do, or get a job, or jerkoff, but no more of your >>>>>>>>>>>> stupidity. AG * >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:06:51 UTC+2 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 11:27:28 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I just opened a topic a while back about the definition of the >>>>>>>>>>>> word "useful" that you keep abusing. Let's remind you: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Useful = whatever increases happiness. >>>>>>>>>>>> Useless = whatever doesn't increase happiness. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My philosophy, I guarantee you 100%, increases happiness, so is >>>>>>>>>>>> useful. >>>>>>>>>>>> Getting cured of cancer might still let you depressed, so >>>>>>>>>>>> cancer cure is useless. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *You can't be very conscious and make such a hugely stupid >>>>>>>>>>>> comment. Don't ya think that being cured of cancer is immensely >>>>>>>>>>>> happier >>>>>>>>>>>> than succumbing to it? AG* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 19:59:29 UTC+2 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 10:44:42 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> How do you expect you can properly fix a car if you don't know >>>>>>>>>>>> how it function ? You just do guesswork, you give it a few kicks >>>>>>>>>>>> and maybe >>>>>>>>>>>> it starts. This is how present-day science works given that it >>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't work >>>>>>>>>>>> based on fundamentals, namely based on the working of >>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness. Sure, >>>>>>>>>>>> you can keep doing research this way: kick it till it works. And >>>>>>>>>>>> you might >>>>>>>>>>>> save a few lives. But if you were start from fundamentals, then >>>>>>>>>>>> you would >>>>>>>>>>>> know exactly what you were doing and you will save 8 billion >>>>>>>>>>>> lives. Not >>>>>>>>>>>> that it would matter at that point, given that at that level of >>>>>>>>>>>> development >>>>>>>>>>>> we will manipulate consciousness to such a degree that we will not >>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>> need bodies anymore. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *About 60 years ago I met a fellow with your philosophy, a >>>>>>>>>>>> Master of Yoga, an adept at "Traditional Science", author of >>>>>>>>>>>> several books, >>>>>>>>>>>> who claimed with great authority that the problem of cancer had >>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>> "solved". He never got cancer but died of a heart failure around >>>>>>>>>>>> age 80 in >>>>>>>>>>>> 2008. AG* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *My point is that people with your philosophy often make huge >>>>>>>>>>>> claims, with rarely anything practical forthcoming. For example, >>>>>>>>>>>> during the >>>>>>>>>>>> Covid pandemic, a company named Moderna produced a vaccine in >>>>>>>>>>>> record time, >>>>>>>>>>>> using knowledge of DNA, viruses, etc. They couldn't have done that >>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>> the discovery of DNA, which no doubt required by the invention of >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> Electron Microscope. Talk is cheap. We can do great things in the >>>>>>>>>>>> absence >>>>>>>>>>>> of your vague philosophy. Can you actually DO something useful, or >>>>>>>>>>>> is it >>>>>>>>>>>> all talk? AG * >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:17:26 UTC+2 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:11:38 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @Alan. You can do cancer research. But since that research is >>>>>>>>>>>> not based on fundamental ideas about reality, it will be just >>>>>>>>>>>> guesswork: >>>>>>>>>>>> Just try 1000 different drugs and cross fingers that one might >>>>>>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>>>>>> Instead, if people would actually understand consciousness, they >>>>>>>>>>>> would cure >>>>>>>>>>>> cancer in 1 week. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *I might believe that if you were able to contribute ANYTHING >>>>>>>>>>>> to ANY problem discussed here. All I read are grandiose claims >>>>>>>>>>>> with nothing >>>>>>>>>>>> practical forthcoming. AG* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:08:48 UTC+2 Alan Grayson >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:01:18 AM UTC-7 Cosmin Visan >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You can continue cancer research. But is just like playing >>>>>>>>>>>> World of Warcraft in order to get the legendary gear. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *If you get cancer, which is not my wish, you can tell your >>>>>>>>>>>> doctor that the pain and suffering is purely imaginary, not to >>>>>>>>>>>> mention the >>>>>>>>>>>> possible early termination of your life. Now, do us all a favor >>>>>>>>>>>> and cease >>>>>>>>>>>> posting like a fool. AG * >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 16:48:23 UTC+2 John Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *You didn't answer my question. Should cancer research be >>>>>>>>>>>> stopped, and if not why not? * >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 9:35 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You make the classical confusion between epistemology and >>>>>>>>>>>> ontology. Only because you can watch a movie with Spider-Man >>>>>>>>>>>> (epistemology), it doesn't follow that Spider-Man exists >>>>>>>>>>>> (ontology). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 15:39:31 UTC+2 John Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 8:04 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *>>the question of list moderation would not be relevant at >>>>>>>>>>>> this time if one very recent list member didn't think page after >>>>>>>>>>>> page of >>>>>>>>>>>> nothing but "(:>)" characters was an intelligent rebuttal, >>>>>>>>>>>> and ALL scientific questions of the form "what is the nature of >>>>>>>>>>>> X?" can be >>>>>>>>>>>> answered by simply saying "X does not exist".* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *> Of course, given that consciousness is all there is. Why >>>>>>>>>>>> would you waste time talking about things that don't exist ?* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *So there's no point in doing cancer research because cancer >>>>>>>>>>>> does not exist? Do I have that right? * >>>>>>>>>>>> * John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f319c6fd-59c0-474d-a489-14eb3361024en%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f319c6fd-59c0-474d-a489-14eb3361024en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8898e6a-2803-42c6-9a2b-dfdc537b5d0en%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b8898e6a-2803-42c6-9a2b-dfdc537b5d0en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8b9c897-3fd8-4840-9420-628ee48e7bacn%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a8b9c897-3fd8-4840-9420-628ee48e7bacn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/eca484a1-d703-470a-a6b0-ac7edca5b396n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/eca484a1-d703-470a-a6b0-ac7edca5b396n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAMy3ZA-gu1Mz4iv6jAZPxnw7H7S81U7u%3D_cKrjk7Ui987bJSmA%40mail.gmail.com.
