On Monday 02 June 2003 12:30 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: <snip> > I don't want to say this, but I have to say it because it is the truth. > For users of 8.2 or maybe even 9.0 there is no cogent reason to upgrade > to 9.1, if you are seeking a stable production system. The reasons I > say this are myriad, but I'll cut it down to three or four. One, there > was not enough manpower focused on 9.1 to release it as an improved > distro over 9.0 or 8.2. This is demonstrable (at least on my system, > which *has not changed* since LM82) because LM91 crashes and/or locks > up, probably about an average of once per day. (It is also slower.) 30
Boy I sure hope this doesn't deteriorate into a slam fest. I just wanted to put my two cents in. I disagree about the unstable. I've seen no difference on my box at all. I'm running an intel cpu with intel chipset. However, I HAVE MOST definately noticed it being slower. Samba is horrid. I'm sure I can tweak it, but just haven't had the time or energy to try to figure out what was wrong. > minutes ago I was examining email, with no unusual activity going on, > and XFree vaporized for no reason that I could discern, taking several > smaller apps with it to their doom. That's just today. I won't say > that LM82 never failed me at all, but I will say that I have a very > strong memory of LM82 being about as stable as the crust of the planet > Mars. Plus, it was faster. > > Second, it's been noted that there does not seem to be a formally > presented system for production distro bugs or problems. Prior to the > advent of 9.1 this was not a major issue, primarily because (IMO) the > releases were so pristine that there was not a major need for one. The > fact that there has been extensive discussion lately for a report route > for production bug reports should be telling. > > Third, (mostly) because of the rpmdrake user interface (NOT the urpmi > improvements at the CLI level, which *are* good), I consider LM82 to be > better than either 9.0 or 9.1. User interfaces should be agreed on and > voted on by the users, and they should not be unilateral elitist > decisions handed down by somebody who is not listening to you. In the > case of both 9.0 and 9.1, the new rpmdrake UI was VOTED DOWN by the I wholeheartedly agree!!! I HATE the new interface and curse it almost every single time I use it. I liked it the old way much more. Their phylosophy seems.... how shall I say.... capricious, arbitrary... different. :) > users and the old interface was *specifically asked* to be reinstituted. > (qualification: not the underlying urpmi structure/engine, just the UI, > or user presentation.) Their pleas and concerns were ignored. In fact, > in the months just prior to Dr Denis Havlik's departure from Mandrake > corporate, the rpmdrake vote for 9.1 was *taken off* the voting forums > in order to silence the voices that were calling for it's return. The > fact that this aspect of the voting process is basically ignored by the > developers is not an issue that I am willing to let go; ever. Not until > it is addressed. > > So, like I said, it is not an easy position to be in. From where I sit, > there need to be three major improvements in the future. > > 1) There should not be a cooker release labeled for production until it > matches or exceeds the production performance of a satisfactory prior > release. > > 2) There should be a formal production bug report system (utilizing > Anthill preferably) that takes care of problems with supposedly stable > production release bugs. In addition this should be priority over > cooker, since your customer's work and productivity should be your first > priority above all else. > > 3) If the voices of the paying members of Mandrakeclub are not heard > within the Club voting system, then it calls into question the entire > purpose of the voting system to begin with as well as the propaganda > that idealizes it. > > It is not a selective matter with regard to votes. If you make > provisions for your paying users to tell you what they want, then you > don't tell them to shut up when they do, or try to silence them. That > negates the purpose of the entire system and generates animosity. Yet > that is exactly what has happened. > > --LX
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