--Actually it is my understanding that as her brain ca advanced she began to experience a "regression" back into ignorance ie ordinary waking state conciousness which included her again experiencing a sense of personal self.The latter development is certainly suggestive that enlightment is dependent on a certain type of brain function which is inturn vunerable to being loss due to disease or injury. Kevin
n [email protected], Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > snip > > > > > I'd also like to ammend my earlier comment about > > experience always > > coming packaged with the knowledge necessary to > > understand the > > experience. Here's a counterexample that I thought > > of: that TM > > teacher who wrote a book about her "enlightenment" > > and then died of > > a brain tumor. She had no understanding for a decade > > or more. So the > > knowledge isn't always there. Hmm... > > She was having a CC experience which is the first > awakening out of bondage. CC is the cessation of > consciousness identifying with any relative > experience. The mind is still filled with mental > habits and these are "burned-out" as that nothingness > ripens. There is no "unboundedness in CC. Just > nothingness. It is very, very hard on the mind because > it keeps looking for something called "self" and finds > pure emptiness instead. This mental habit must be > broken. She did not gain the intellectual > understanding of this through MMY or the TMO (which is > too bad because in my experience it is right there!) > and was therefore confused for quite some time until > that nothingness ate the gap and she was in UC. Then > she died ;-) hehehe. A kali yuga curve ball. > -Peter (eater of the gap) > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], akasha_108 > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], anonymousff > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > In my experience, it is fun to contemplate such > > issues. And > > thank > > > > you to each and every one of you who contributed > > to this thread. > > > > > > > > But, having noticed that even deep immersement > > in these ideas > > over a > > > > period of years has not resulted in a gestalt > > awakening to what > > is > > > > really happening here, I go about my business as > > usual. Such > > > > metaphysical questions appear to get burnt up in > > the searing > > heat of > > > > life lived in the present. > > > > > > > > I have heard that some do awaken to the true > > nature of things as > > a > > > > result of this kind of self-inquiry, and so, do > > not condemn it > > > > outright. But I wonder sometimes at its utility. > > In under an > > hour, I > > > > am sure that someone familiar with the various > > conceptual > > nuances > > > > and schools of thought on the topics of I, ego, > > doer, > > individuality, > > > > self etc., could lay them all out so that anyone > > of reasonably > > > > developed intellect could grasp the ideas and > > check on how well > > they > > > > relate to their own experience. After that, what > > is the point, > > > > unless it is to check in once every few years to > > see if one's > > > > perspective has changed due to the clearing of > > fog or the > > shifting > > > > of mirrors? > > > > > > (Sorry Akasha for this linear thinking, > > non-gestalt > > > > conclusion - I don't fully mean it...am just > > stating how I feel > > at > > > > the moment.) > > > > > > > > > For the most part, the intellect thinks in a > > sequential, linear > > > fashion. I am not advocating anyone to try to > > abondon that at all - > > - I > > > don't think thats possible. What does occur at > > times though, is > > that > > > after examining various parts of a puzzle, in a > > systematic, linear > > > fashion, the various parts can "flash" -- fuse in > > new ways, > > providing > > > new insight. > > > > > > Sometimes the linear analysis and (sometimes) > > subsequent "flash" > > are > > > based on symbolic processing -- that is, its a > > logical refinement > > and > > > manipulation of concepts / abstractions -- sort of > > like solving an > > > algebraic equations where the variables are > > concepts. Concepts > > and > > > abstractions are the "content" of the processing. > > > > > > On the other hand, a different type of linear > > processing can occur, > > > also resulting in a, often later, gestalt-typr > > flash. However, now > > the > > > elements being processed, the content, the data > > being crunched, is > > > experiential. Or, sometimes a mixture of > > conceptual elelments and > > > experiential elements. The post linear analysis > > phase, > > the "flash" -- > > > fuses concepts and/or experience in new > > relationships and can > > result > > > in a new experiential foundation. > > > > > > The best analogy I can think of to explain the > > fusion of conceptual > > > and experiential elements -- each originally > > approached in very > > linear > > > systematic fashion, and it is only an analogy, is > > in learning a new > > > skill or sport. For example, for those that play > > tennis, a top-spin > > > serve becomes a valuable tool -- particularly as a > > second serve. It > > > almost always goes in, even when hit full force, > > and can be made to > > > bounce so high to an opponent's weaker side that > > it is hard to > > return > > > -- and further, can get the opponent out of > > position. > > > > > > When I was a kid and a teacher explained the > > top-spin serve to me, > > I > > > didnt get it. I got the concept, I got the > > mechanics. But I could > > not > > > "do it", I couldn't make it an experience. Later, > > some time later, > > > fooling around, I found I could make my serves > > really "kick" by > > doing > > > this "thing" that I could not explain, but could > > do. Some time > > later, > > > the concept and the experience fused in a flash, > > and I tealized > > what > > > I was doing was a self-learned top-spin serve. I > > then reused the > > > conceptual understanding of top-spin to refine and > > clarify the > > > mechanics of the "experience" and the feel of > > doing it. Soon, it > > was > > > just locked in. > > > > > > The point is, you don't attempt to think > > gestaltly, nonlinearly. I > > > don't know how to do that -- other than to set up > > the conditions > > that > > > let that happen. And that is to sharply look at > > different parts of > > an > > > issue or problem in a linear systematic fashion. > > And then, in a > > sense, > > > let go. And in time, sometimes, or often, a more > > holistic, > > > multi-component (symbols and /or experiential > > elements) creat a > > > "flash" of insight, almost as if the fusion of the > > elements creates > > > energy and light. > > > > > > The broader point is that I have found that > > periodically > > > systematically and intensely examining the > > components > === message truncated === > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
