--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Maharishi's answer doesn't clearly account for, as an example, Satyanand's stated experience of hearing Guru Dev's voice *after* Guru Dev's body had ceased to function. Nor does it account for my own current experiences of Guru Dev, visually and telepathically. [Unless of course, one claims that Guru Dev hadn't attained Cosmic Consciousness.] Interestingly, I remember that exchange at Humboldt, as I waited on every word. And I shared the frustration I sensed in the person that asked that question as Maharishi did not clarify it satisfactorily. > A recorded lecture by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi > > August 1970, Humboldt State College, California > > > > > > Student: Today in our discussion group we were discussing levels of > consciousness and this rose (sic) a couple of questions. The first one is, > at what level of consciousness is it unnecessary for an individual to > incarnate again. > > > > Maharishi Mahesh Yogi: At the level of consciousness where the development > of the self is full. And that is > > > > S: (interrupting) Is this Cosmic Consciousness then? > > > > MMY: Right. > > > > S: I see. And at this point if the person leaves the body or dies if you > want to call it that and goes on to wherever he goes, does he have his > individuality? And if he does can he incarnate again? > > > > MMY: He doesn't go. > > > > S: I don't understand. > > > > MMY: Cosmic Consciousness is a state where the small `s' has become big > `S'. Self. And Self - big `S' Self means unboundedness. Unboundedness. > Eternity. When the status of the individual has expanded to unboundedness, > that is his status and that is he. Hmm? When the status is unbounded, he > is beyond time and space. He's all over. Once he is all over, where he can > go? Hmm? > > > > S: He's individual, but yet he's unbounded everywhere? > > > > MMY: This is what the small self becoming big Self means. In our > meditation that unbounded awareness, that awareness, it has already expanded > to eternity, to infinity. Infinite is the boundary of the individual > consciousness, huh? On the level of consciousness. On the level of the > body he is so many feet long and so many feet wide. Individual. But his > awareness is so much unbounded. When the individual is so much unbounded, > and the body ceases to function, then what will happen to that unbounded > awareness? Nothing can happen to It. Hmm? That It is `I' capital. It. > Unboundedness. And therefore, it doesn't leave the body and doesn't go > anywhere, because being everywhere it cannot leave a place and go to another > place. It cannot leave one time, go to other time. So the unboundedness is > free from the boundaries of time and space. And that is why a man living > Cosmic Consciousness does not go somewhere. His body goes from manifested > state to unmanifested state. The body goes, he doesn't go. > > > > S: Thank you. Could you speak a little bit on chakras and kundalini? > > > > MMY: (interrupting) Now, now, now, now, now. I'll speak more on this, > hmmm? To make it little bit more clear. What is happening (a group > enters the lecture hall) Oh, come on. The poets enter the room now. Come > on, come on. I am having a poetic flight. (laughter) > > > > Now how does CC grow? How does one grow in CC? We have known it is the > growth of the nervous system. Growth means transformation. Purification of > the nervous system. Modification of the nervous system. Due to which that > pure consciousness becomes permanent. One example will clarify this > situation. Green water in a glass, green water in a glass. Now the sun is > shining everywhere and the glass is in the sun. The reflection is green. > This is like the small `s' self- when the nervous system is not purified, it > is green. The water is green, it's not very clear. Nervous system is > clouded with all kinds of impurities. Now that green water has green > reflection. The sun, sun shining evenly everywhere is not green. It's > neither green nor red or no colour. It's colourless. If we modify water, > green water being modified, green becoming less and less, hmm? That means > the reflector of the sun is being modified, resulting in the modification of > the reflection. The water becoming less and less green, the reflection is > becoming less and less green. Less and less green means more and more > towards the nature of the sun. Less and less green reflection means more > and more becoming like the sun. At a point, at one particular moment, the > water is no more green. Completely pure. > > > > Still, the water could continue to be modified. This modification could > continue `til the reflection has gained the quality of the sun around it. > The reflection has become the omnipresent sun. It has gained the quality of > the sun around it. This is like Cosmic Consciousness. The reflection then > is a reflection. It has its structure according to the shape of the glass, > but that the quality of the reflection is the quality of the sun. The > reflection feels, `I am the sun'. Hmm? This is realization. The > reflection which had its an identity different from the sun has now gained > the quality of the sun. `I am the sun.' > > > > Just like that, the nervous system, reflecting the omnipresent being, and > the reflection is of a particular quality. Hmm? But with transcendental > meditation the modification of the nervous system keeps on improving the > quality of the reflection. Quality of reflection keeps on becoming purer > and purer. A time comes when the individual reflection, the Self, has > gained the quality of omnipresent being. Hundred percent. The Self is > Being. The small self has gained the status of big Self, big `S'. In this > state, the nervous system, due to the nervous system, the big Self can be > located and yet it is unbounded. When the reflection has become like the > sun, and the reflection has gained the quality of the sun around it, then it > is omnipresent sun. It is the same sun that shining everywhere. Yet, > because of the glass it has its individuality. So it is an individual > entity and it is omnipresent sun both at the same time. > > > > Now, the glass breaks. Water spreads. What has happened to the reflection? > Nothing has happened to the reflection except that is ceases to be located. > The reflection that was here when the glass was intact was the same sun as > everywhere it has the same quality. Now the glass is not there, it's > broken. Where has gone the reflection? It has gone nowhere. It's just > there, because it has already gained the status of the sun. It's there, but > only it ceases to be located. The individuality drops off with the body > ceasing to function and the cosmic status of the self remains undisturbed. > Nothing can happen to the unboundedness. Nothing can happen to Absolute > Being because it is already non-relative. Absolute is non-relative, nothing > can happen to it. When the body drops, nothing happens to it. It doesn't > go. It doesn't come out from the body and doesn't go anywhere because > anywhere it can go, it already is there. > > > > And therefore we don't talk in terms of death. Hmm? A man who has risen to > Cosmic Consciousness, we just don't talk about him in terms of death. We > talk about his body ceasing to function. He doesn't depart from the body. > He doesn't go anywhere. Only for other people he ceases to be located. And > this was the thing, even during, when the body was functioning. During when > he was living. He was, he was there. He could be located and even when he > was being located as an individual in time and place, even then he was > beyond the time and everywhere in space on the level of his consciousness. > Hmm? > > > > What happens when the body ceases to function? What happens? The ego, > individual ego had already gained the status of cosmic ego. And cosmic ego > is there on the cosmic level. So nothing happens to the individual ego. > Nothing new happens to the individual ego. Only that the individual ego is > not able to associate itself with the mind and senses and project itself to > the field of action and in the environment. Only it's because there is no > means available for the projection of the ego through the action into the > environment, this phenomenon ceases to happen. The ego ceases to function > because the means of action the nervous system and the senses they are > not available. So what happens to the ego? It only ceases to function > through the senses because there is no senses. It ceases to experience > because the means of experience are no more available. > > > > What happens to the intellect? Hmm? That intellect of the individual even > during lifetime was one with cosmic intelligence but because the nervous > system was there, the senses were there, the mechanism of thinking was > there, it was able to think and decide. This deciding, the phenomenon of > taking decisions has ceased to function. Hmm? Has ceased to be. Only this > phenomenon of taking decisions. So the intellect is not able to function. > Same is the mind. Mind functions through the brain and when the brain is no > more available, mind ceases to function. But its status as Cosmic > Intelligence can never be shadowed, can never be overshadowed. Senses, they > already had been fully developed, even when they were functioning on the > isolated boundaries of time and place. Hmm? When the man was living Cosmic > Consciousness. That time the senses were functioning. Now the machinery is > no more available. They do not, the senses are not able to function. That > is all. So only the functioning stops. Nothing happens to these individual > subjective aspects of life. Ego, even during lifetime had already been > cosmic ego. Intellect had already been cosmic intelligence. Mind was > already cosmic mind. Senses had been fully developed. Hmm? And so the > isolation aspect of the senses only drops off. The cosmic aspect continues. > So it's only the individuality drops off with the body ceasing to function. > The cosmic aspect, hmm? Remains. > > > > Cosmic Consciousness has two aspects to it one cosmic aspect, the other > individual aspect. The glory of the individual aspect is that by virtue of > this individual aspect, cosmic aspect can be lived. Hmm? This is the glory > of the individual aspect of Cosmic Consciousness by virtue of the nervous > system functioning normally- that the cosmic aspect of life is possible to > live on the individual level. And this is the glory of the fully developed > nervous system. That cosmic unbounded aspect of life is capable of being > lived on the individual level. Hmm? It's a very great, it's a very great > blessing that the individuality can live cosmic existence, cosmic > intelligence. This is the glory of Cosmic Consciousness, and when the body > ceases, individuality drops off, cosmic status remains. So one doesn't > leave the body. > > > > It is said that the ego and the mind, they are already cosmic in structure, > even when the body is functioning. And nothing can happen to the cosmic > structure when something happens to the individual level of the cosmic > structure. What does it matter? Hmm? Cosmic structure remains undisturbed > when the individuality drops. What can happen to the ocean if a drop drops > off? Nothing. So when the body drops off in the cosmic, cosmic value of > life only ceases to be located, that's all. We don't talk in terms of death > of Cosmic Consciousness- he doesn't die. Because normally dieing is > associated with leaving this body and going somewhere. Like that. So when > he doesn't go, hmm, his mind is already cosmic. His prana, the breath, > already cosmic. Already it is cosmic. Not that it merges into the cosmic, > no. Not that the individual prana merges into the cosmic prana. Not that > the individual mind merges into the cosmic mind. Because already during > lifetime, the individual mind was one with cosmic mind. The individual > prana was one with cosmic prana. Therefore, no new merger takes place at > the time of death. No new phenomenon of merger of the individual mind or > individual prana into the cosmic mind or cosmic prana takes place at the > time of death. Nothing new happens at the time of death, only the old body > drops off. > > > > Nothing new happens because already all that was to happen to the individual > consciousness had already happened, even during lifetime. The individual > mind is already one with the cosmic mind. The individual prana is already > one with the cosmic prana. So the individual mind is cosmic mind. > Individual prana is cosmic prana. Only the individuality of cosmic prana > which was due to the body ceases to be. The individuality of the mind, > which was due to the body, ceases to be with this ceasing of the body. Hmm? > Nothing happens new at the time of death, only that the individual ceases to > be located by others. Is that clear? > > > > S: Could a man in CC choose to reincarnate to help raise the level of man? > Raise the level of consciousness of man? Once he's reached this CC, can he > incarnate again to help further the evolution of man? > > > > MMY: Incarnate means come back. > > > > S: Yes I know. > > > > MMY: Now we have seen he doesn't go. (laughter) > > > > S: Take up another body? > > > > MMY: So when he doesn't go, there is no question of coming back. > > > > S: Yes, but I'm speaking in > > > > MMY: (interrupting) Anyone who will go will come back. Go has to be back. > One doesn't go, doesn't There's no question of coming back when he doesn't > go. There is no question of coming back. When his going is arrested, he > doesn't get a passport to come back. His going is arrested, it doesn't go. > > > > S: Thank you. > > > > MMY: Is that point clear? > > > > S: Uh, yeah kinda. I don't see if a man reaches Cosmic Consciousness, and > he leaves the body, and like you say he's unbounded, then can he choose to > come back to earth in a body to help > > > > MMY: The desire is out of hand. He can't make a choice. Because hmm? A > seed which has been roasted, a roasted seed, firstly it can not desire to > germinate and in case it desires to germinate it has no more potentiality > left to germinate. Even if a roasted seed desires- firstly, he cannot, it > cannot desire to germinate, because there is no possibility left for > desiring. In case, by some chance maybe, it desires to germinate, it can't. > It cannot germinate because that possibility has been roasted. (laughter) > In the fire of knowledge, that possibility to germinate has been roasted. > Now a man in enlightenment cannot- firstly he cannot desire to come back, > secondly if by any cosmic mistake he desires, the coming back is out of > hand. That possibility is out of hand, it just cannot, cannot, cannot come > back. > > > > S: Can he influence the relative world? > > > > MMY: While alive he does in every way. As long as he is individual, he is > living that cosmic life and therefore is a means. His individuality is a > means to set in motion, to set in vibration that cosmic life. Cosmic life > breathes through him, pulsates in his, in his pulsations. And this is a > very great thing. If one could set the cosmic existence to pulsate, it's a > very great thing. And this cosmically conscious man does automatically. > > > > When I am answering, don't make questions. When I am answering, if you are > manipulating a question in the mind, then you are left with a problem. When > I have finished answering, then you start thinking `What is the next angle > to raise?' It will be very beneficial. And if, when I'm talking you do > strike with some question regarding what is being said, note it down quietly > and keep it. When you engage your friend on your side, on this or this, > remarking how beautiful it is, then the following two sentences are gone. > Don't formulate a question when I am, when I am speaking, uh? Yes, go > ahead, what did you > > > > S: I have no more questions, thank you. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1263 - Release Date: 2/6/2008 > 8:14 PM >
