--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > While I respect both you and your devotional approach
> > to spirituality, I think that you have come to believe
> > that scripture was written by God.
> >
> > It wasn't. It was written by MEN, and in this case,
> > by the VERY men who are saying that it's a sin to
> > question them or their motives or speak ill of them
> > of do anything other than what they tell you to do.
> >
> > You seem to be of the opinion that these MEN who wrote
> > these things were doing so for only pure motives. I
> > make no such assumption. They were establishing a set
> > of guidelines so that no one would ever think for them-
> > selves and judge spiritual teachers as *people*, for
> > fear that to do so would be a sin.
>
> Just to temper this somewhat, and explain a little
> bit more what might be easily misconstrued, I have
> *no problem* with those who believe scripture is
> the revealed word of God. I'm just making the point
> that some people seem to feel that because *they*
> believe this, that others should, too.
>
> I don't. First, I don't believe in a sentient God,
> one who has thoughts that could be written down.
> Second, although I easily accept the possibility of
> lesser "gods" or devas, I give them no more credence
> and pay no more attention to them than I would a
> fellow human being. They are interesting, but not
> much of relevance to my life. And it's not just the
> Hindu or Western scriptures; I feel exactly the same
> way about the canon of Buddhism.
>
> I tend to regard scripture as literature. I fully
> believe that some scripture is *inspired* literature,
> and that some of it was inspired in men who were fully
> enlightened and writing their visions down for the
> general betterment of humanity, as an act of service.
> At the same time, I believe that some of it very much
> reflected the prejudices and the assumptions of the
> time in which it was written, and the prejudices and
> the assumptions and the particular path of the enlight-
> ened person who wrote it down.
>
> I'm not convinced that there is a "one size fits all"
> spiritual path that "fits" everyone. Similarly, I am
> not convinced that there is a "one size fits all" set
> of scriptures that accurately describes the best path
> to follow or best set of dharmic actions for everyone.
> I tend to treat every scripture I read with as much
> respect as I can, but as One Man's Vision, not as the
> word of God or the word of the Absolute or even as
> something that is applicable to all men in all times.
>
> I hope this clarifies what I was trying to say earlier.
> I'm really not ragging on those who believe strongly
> that scripture IS the revealed word of God, merely
> pointing out that when interacting with people, assuming
> that it is and that the other person *agrees* with you
> that it is is fallacious.
>
> Wishing you well on your path, and everyone here just as
> well on theirs, whatever it may be. I am convinced that
> they all lead to the same place, and that occasionally
> the paths -- however different they may seem -- run
> parallel to each other. When they do, we can wave at
> each other and trade stories about what our particular
> path was like, and the adventures we had as we got to
> this particular point in the journey that is not even
> a journey, because there is nowhere to "go." And then
> we each wave goodbye and "go" our own Way.
>
> Unc
****
I couldn't agree more with this, i.e. this way of seeing has
been my path also.
When young in school I was quite critical of the religion teaching.
In the bible I saw some deep wisdom, a lot of fairy tales and
manipulation to make people obey the religious authorities in power.
I never could take the bible as the word of God, and later no other
so called holy scripture either.
As a young adolescent I came to the following conclusion: If there is
God and he is the embodiment of truth, he cannot expect from me
anything else expect I follow what I find to be true deep inside my
heart, even if it meant the denial of the existence of God. I did not
deny his existence, but came to the conclusion that I cannot ever
have a correct picture or idea of him, he transcends my conceptual
understanding and everybody else's also. If you criticise holy men or
holy scriptures you are NOT criticising God. But if you are not
listening to the silent whispers of truth deep inside, you are
harming yourself and others.
Throughout the history of humanity religion and holy men have a long
and impressive track record of atrocities and misuse of power.
Therefore it would shopw poor judgement not to have these entities
under strict scrutiny. And it would be wise also not to give too much
power to them at all.
Holy men can teach us important skills or deeper understanding of the
subjective subtle reality. But if they crave for power, it should not
be given to them. Threatening by the consequences of criticising of
them is a powerful method of manipulation which takes advantage of
people's fears.
If the holy men manage to get inside an organization absolute power,
that very position will also cause their degradation. Power corrupts
easily, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
But then again I also respect the choice of those people, who go
along the path of unconditional devotion to their guru. Some people
seem to need that kind of path to be able to reach to deeper levels
in spirituality. What bothers me is ,when people on this kind of path
resort to lies and other unscrupulous methods to convince others of
their path being superior or even to force others to follow that path.
I know many people, who are very much afraid of spiritual
organizations and techniques, because they apparently have deep fears
of getting drawn into a cult. But that way they also often seem to
put their spiritual development on a halt. But I respect that choice
also. It may be that it is important for them in this lifetime to
concentrate on learning in other aspects of life.
Generally I'm willing to support people in their progress on their
chosen path, the only prerequisite being this path respects the
rights of others. I have no need to convert anyone to some special
belief system.
Irmeli
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
