--- In [email protected], "Susan" <wayback71@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Buck" <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "whynotnow7" <whynotnow7@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So you keep talking about Maharishi in great analysis and detail to keep
> > > from thinking about how Lenz fucked up your head and heart?
> > >
> > > That's what it looks like. Freddy was exceptionally gifted and insecure.
> > > Probably suffering parental rejection, so he got together a few of you
> > > and made sure HE was the boss, HE was the Guru. You kissed HIS butt, but
> > > you get the picture- you lived it. Now instead of coming to grips with
> > > it, you deflect everything about Lenz onto Maharishi.
> > >
> > > Free clue: Grow a pair and start living in the present and/or see a
> > > therapist about the Lenz shit and clear yourself out. Its kind of
> > > pathetic to see you in this state, all blind to it and misguidedly
> > > throwing all of your pain on Maharishi. After all, Lenz was the mentally
> > > ill one, the crazy one, the one you can't grow past even now.
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], tartbrain <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > This is not a counter rebuttal, simply another view, a point for
> > > > further discussion and examination.
> > > >
> > > > The tipping point was when a portion (I think it was 11.73% but others
> > > > may quibble on this)of the full time community -- and some ardent
> > > > part-timers, kept clung to the notion that M. and his TMOs were all
> > > > about, only about, the seven step program for teaching 20 min 2x / day.
> > > >
> > > > A parallel is Apple and Steve Jobs. When he went more digital
> > > > (i-tunes, i-phone) and creating superb customer experiences (Apple
> > > > stores) etc, many of the faithful said, "Huh, what does this have to do
> > > > with selling Macs" and "What possible effect can a company with 3%
> > > > market share have on digital music". Steve's vision was that Apple was
> > > > a "digital gateway company" (or something along those lines with a core
> > > > emphasis on superb design.
> > > >
> > > > Apple would not be the company with the largest market capitalization
> > > > in the world (subject to check) and Steve Jobs would not be revered as
> > > > the CEO of the decade(s), if he limited his vision to selling Macs.
> > > >
> > > > M. and his TMOs, in my view, were / are about being a "Consciousness
> > > > gateway org" -- not limited to 20 min 2x, but having 50 product lines
> > > > that enable Consciousness to shine in all parts of a persons life. Yet
> > > > many whined, "when will we get OUR old TMO back, 20 min 2x". "When will
> > > > M come to his senses and do what he is supposed to do, teach TM".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected], turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The sense of near-desperation with which some on this forum are hoping
> > > > > that Oprah is the "new Merv" and that TM is finally on the upswing
> > > > > again
> > > > > left me thinking about its past, and trying to pinpoint where it all
> > > > > went wrong. Many have speculated on this forum about what that "phase
> > > > > transition moment" was, the point at which it all began to unravel and
> > > > > go downhill. For many (including luminaries like Charlie Lutes and
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > > Jarvis), that point was the introduction of the TM-Sidhi program. Me,
> > > > > I
> > > > > have a different theory, and I'm going to rap about it in a little
> > > > > mini-essay today. Be warned...this may be a little long (although not
> > > > > the length of Robin's epics), and it may piss a few people off. But
> > > > > it's
> > > > > what I honestly believe.
> > > > >
> > > > > I cannot pinpoint the exact day or month or year in which TMers went
> > > > > officially bat shit crazy (some TM historian type here may be able to
> > > > > do
> > > > > that for us),
> >
> > The day? Organizationally? Turqb, it was in the Spring of '77 on a day
> > when the whole TM teaching organization got overturned by Maharishi at the
> > end of a huge governor (siddhis) training course in Switzerland. As the
> > Maharishi was preparing to dis-band the course and have people (many of the
> > active teaching organization at the time) go home, things changed from that
> > point. Before this the organizational evaluation of how the movement was
> > doing was in how the new initiations of new meditators were doing and also
> > in the numbers of mediators coming to residence courses. In a meeting the
> > whole hierarchical order of the teaching organization was sorted, turned
> > out and replaced by 'teams' of teachers with Bevan, Neil and the Wilsons on
> > top and everyone else spun off.
You got the spring of 77 and dissolving of the old orgs right. But Neil and the
wilsons? in charge? I guess I didn't get those secret marching orders. I know
the name, but Neil had nothing to do with our activities as guv teams of 4 in
the field teaching the prep courses. The Wilsons, not sure who they are,
however they surely were not someone the teams of guvs had anything to do with.
(Were they students at MIU in SB in 74 -- was Signe the wife?) Bevan floated
around a bit in 78 as I recall, but the teams had no formal contact with him as
I recall.
Were you on a team of guvs, or is this urban legend you are reciting from hazy
memory?
> After this re-organization happened the evaluation shifted over to being in
> the numbers of people going to group practice of the Siddhis.
Well, maybe several years after that. The focus in the spring of 77 was to hold
siddha prep courses. The only ones flying then were a few guvs in crazy
basements and storage rooms.
> From this it then became about the numbers in group practice of TM-siddhis.
> The teaching organization and that program got lost from then. The physics
> discussion around the Meissner Effect had preceded that time.
> >
> > I was there and got to witness this happen. It was a time.
> >
> > -Buck
>
> Doug, I do think you have it right. I remember that time - I had already
> gone on an earlier 6 month course. Then this new group returned to the center
> and basically took over - simply because they had been on the latest siddhis
> course! Some were terrible at giving lectures, but most seemed to be very
> full of themsleves. The focus on getting people to learn TM and the focus on
> excellent residence courses just stopped.
While I am sure there was some of that, my experience and view at the time is
that in the summer of 77 and for at least a bit after that, there were some
pretty awesome 6-week ?) prep courses going on around the country, and while
not perhaps Regional Shank polished, were taught from the heart, from a
relatively same level of the meditators on the courses (which was different
from the old golden boy system of residence course leaders) and were generally
competent and effective.
You may have seen some courses I did not.
> As a result, people who learned TM often did not stick with it for very long.
> It was all about flying together. The old movement was gone,
That's true. And the pre 77 period was nice, but in my view pretty superficial
in some ways. I mean how profound were the courses around the Merv wave. More
heart and soul in the 68-72 period as I recall. Then much more formality set
it. And tons of new teachers very green and naive and some quite dysfunctional.
Not the best days of the TMO IMO.
>and the new one never took off.
>From my view, it appeared to take off for a while, 77-79. Large courses, lots
>of people becoming sidhas, much flatter organizations, guvs and sidhas being
>somewhat on the same playing field (or flying mat).
It did seem to crumble after that from a variety of views (which for me, are
limited, I surly only saw a small slice of things.)
>I know several TM teachers who faded away from the TMO at that time and went
>back to getting a real world job.
As happened in 1969, 1971, 1974, 1976 .. over the years there were a steady
flow of retirements and fresh new faces taking their places.
> This change was definitely MMY's wish,
The movement belongs to those who move. Those who were stuck on the idea that
the movement and the TMO were ONLY about the 7-step program were, well, stuck.
I think M and TM were always a moving target about gateways to consciousness
and purifying collective consciousness, via a lot of different avenues. We
think SIMS was the movement because we grew up and within that. Think how
estranged and "the movement died then" the SRM folks felt when the SIMS wave
rose. ("My god, they don't even talk about God!!")
> and so many many people worked hard to make it happen, Bevan included. You
> have to give him his due - he is a true devotee and I admire him for that. I
> imagine he has no choice but to follow his master. Not everyone is built
> that way.......
> >
> >
> >
> > because I'd already left before it happened. But I can
> > > > > pinpoint its nature, and what was said -- and believed -- that caused
> > > > > everything after that point to be a loony bin. It's the day that
> > > > > Maharishi first tried to convince people that bouncing on their butts
> > > > > on
> > > > > slabs of foam in a big room full of other butt-bouncers could end
> > > > > crime,
> > > > > change the weather, and bring about world peace.
> > > > >
> > > > > This pronouncement almost certainly predated the term "Maharishi
> > > > > Effect," which was invented later to glorify his pronouncement, and
> > > > > "scientific data" made up to make it seem true. But from my point of
> > > > > view the fact that ANYONE believed this spiel for even an instant
> > > > > signifies the "phase transition point" from relative sanity to total
> > > > > madness.
> > > > >
> > > > > Try it yourself by performing your own scientific experiment. Go out
> > > > > onto the street and pick someone at random, and tell them several
> > > > > things
> > > > > that you believe. First, tell them what you heard when you first
> > > > > learned
> > > > > TM -- that it was good for you, and that the deep rest enabled you to
> > > > > function more efficiently and with less stress. You will probably get
> > > > > a
> > > > > general agreement with this. Then say that it is your belief, based on
> > > > > scriptures and reported historical instances and such, that some
> > > > > humans
> > > > > can develop special powers and abilities (the siddhis) that others
> > > > > have
> > > > > not, and possibly even levitate. No one's likely to call you crazy for
> > > > > this, because it is after all a matter of belief, and is no weirder
> > > > > after all than believing in a heaven filled with angels playing harps
> > > > > or
> > > > > that Christ walked on water.
> > > > >
> > > > > But now tell them that you believe that a number of people as special
> > > > > as
> > > > > yourself generate so much Woo Woo by grunting and bouncing around on
> > > > > their butts on slabs of foam that THEY CAN CREATE WORLD PEACE, all by
> > > > > themselves, with no further action needed. My bet is that the
> > > > > strangers
> > > > > you've selected for this experiment are going to start edging away
> > > > > from
> > > > > you nervously, if not actually running down the street away from you.
> > > > > The very idea is absurd, and based on a level of self-importance that
> > > > > most people on the planet associate only with full-blown insanity.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I've said, I'd left the TMO before Maharishi ever started talking
> > > > > about this. If I'd still been there I would have laughed in his face
> > > > > and
> > > > > walked out of the room, never to return. So I find it difficult to
> > > > > imagine people listening to it and being SO self-absorbed and
> > > > > self-important that they actually bought it.
> > > > >
> > > > > The TM-Sidhis were originally introduced as a means to an end, a way
> > > > > to
> > > > > speed up the enlightenment process. There was not a WORD about what
> > > > > performing them might do for anyone else. That only came later, after
> > > > > a
> > > > > number of people had actually learned the siddhis and (surprise!)
> > > > > neither siddhis nor enlightenment had appeared. The whole original
> > > > > "selling point" of getting people to pay thousands of dollars to learn
> > > > > them had been revealed to be false. So Maharishi had to do *something*
> > > > > to try to get people to keep doing them, and to entice new people to
> > > > > learn them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Voila. The "group consciousness" thang. What began as mere pragmatism
> > > > > (finding a room somewhere and chipping in to get a discount on slabs
> > > > > of
> > > > > foam rather than each person buying some for their own home) was
> > > > > turned
> > > > > into an exercise in Woo Woo. "Doing program" in a group was presented
> > > > > as
> > > > > being Good In Itself. You were "off the program" if you *didn't* do
> > > > > your
> > > > > program in a group. Hierarchies were invented to make the
> > > > > butt-bouncers
> > > > > "higher" and more important than "mere meditators." Dogma was invented
> > > > > about how powerful the group Woo Woo was, and how its peace-causing
> > > > > properties were even more important than individual enlightenment.
> > > > > This
> > > > > proved an easy sell to the gullible, because their own experience had
> > > > > already shown them that neither real flying nor enlightenment were
> > > > > right
> > > > > around the corner. They believed the insanity being told to them and
> > > > > shifted their allegiance to altruism and "doing it for the world."
> > > > >
> > > > > That's my theory of The Day It All Changed. Maybe someone here was
> > > > > around *on* that day, and can pinpoint when they first heard it.
> > > > > Maybe a
> > > > > few of you can try to explain why you chose to believe it. As I've
> > > > > said,
> > > > > I was long gone by that time, and was so distanced from the TMO and
> > > > > its
> > > > > craziness that I didn't even know this "dogma shift" had taken place
> > > > > until I heard about it years later on groups like
> > > > > alt.meditation.transcendental. People started talking about the
> > > > > "Maharishi Effect" as if it were a real thing and as if everyone
> > > > > should
> > > > > know what they were talking about, and I had no clue. When they
> > > > > explained it to me I remember laughing for about fifteen minutes at
> > > > > what
> > > > > I'd heard, and how bat shit crazy it was.
> > > > >
> > > > > I honestly think that's the day everything shifted over into total bat
> > > > > shit craziness. MORE bat shit crazy followed, such as being terrified
> > > > > to
> > > > > enter a building from the wrong direction and people paying a million
> > > > > dollars to dress in robes and crowns and call themselves kings of an
> > > > > imaginary country, but the "phase transition moment" for me was that
> > > > > day
> > > > > when Maharishi announced that bouncing on your butts on slabs of foam
> > > > > could bring about world peace. And people were so gullible, so
> > > > > guru-whipped, and so in need of something to feel self important about
> > > > > that they believed it.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
