--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In [email protected], Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > --- Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > It's interesting. the dark side of these people who > > > try to pass themselves > > > off as the latest guru. That tendency (to declare > > > oneself a teacher or guru > > > or "enlightened") I tend to associate with nothing > > > more than a refined and > > > clever ego. I remember how disappointed I was when I > > > found out that Charlie > > > Lutes had loved to frequent strip clubs. > > > > This opens a question for inquiry, and I apply this to > > myself, too. Why would such behavior on Charlie's part > > bother us so much? He liked to look at naked women. > > Okay.... I have known other people in the past that I > > respect and admire that did the same thing from time > > to time. Why is it such a problem? Hmmmm.
> Strip clubs exploit women as sex objects. So is your underlying premise that women are not mature or smart enough to make such decisions for themselves? That they need society, particularly a matriarchial society, to make such decisions for them? Dancing naked, or semi naked, and talking to a lot of men -- the far greater portion of their time spent -- may be demeaning to some woman. Others find it a great confidence booster. Some say "if you feel comfortable about your looks and body dancing naked in front of strangers, you feel pretty comfortable most anywhere." Do you feel that modern fashion, make-up, fitness centers, etc. also objective women? Or assist women into objectifying themselves as sex objects? Or sexy? Is it that dancers how portray themselves as sexual, while still athletic, charming and humorous, that is somehow exploitive? Exploiting outdated stereotypes of what "proper woman" should be? Is it the gymnastics done by some dancers and the physical conditioning that most dancers undergo that is exploitive? Should we shut down 24-hour Fitness and other gyms because people are being exploited, deluded that a fit, hard and even hot body is a path to happiness? If your premise is not the above, what is it that is exploitive? Do you have some fantasies of imported sex workers without green cards who can be exploited by threat of exposure? That is a fantasy. In most cities, if not all, dancers need to register with the police and get their "card", whereby a through background check is conducted. If your premise is not the above, I am still struggling with the exploited thing? Exploited by making $400-1000 dollars a night instead of $7.15/hr at WalMart? Exploited because they can pay for college and have time to study and attaned classes (probably 50% of dancers are students.) Is it the showing off their bodies that is exploitive? Well, perhaps you don't frequent southern california beaches, or swimming pools and lakes most everywhere, but multitudes of girls on the beach are willingly, gleefully and proudly exposing themselves to about the same degree as girls in strip clubs. Sometimes more -- thong swimsuits have evolved in ways you may not be aware. And most malls and campuses -- short shorts and low cut, belly exposed tops -- all pretty "displayful". Are these women all being exploited? (Perhaps a case can be made that they are -- they go to all that trouble out of the goodness of their hearts, and are not compensated like dancers are.) What do you feel about nudity, sex scenes, or simply modern female atire shown abundantly and frequently on TV and films? Do you think the body is shameful and should be covered? Like MMY commenting on skinny-dippers at Humboldt 70 (many future SIMS leaders among them) that "the body is ugly and should be covered.) Who is it that is exploiting the dancers? The club owners? By giving the girls high pay (often), flexible hour employment, strong protection should some customers get rude? The customers? Do you have visions of customers treating dancers rudely? If they do, they are quickly kicked out of most clubs. Do you feel that dancers are prostitutes? Every try to "date" a dancer? Persist and you will get tossed out of clubs quickly. (San Francisco clubs aside where most anything can be done, negotiated with the girl, on the premises.) Do you feel that there are other realms of society that tend to objectify women? How should such be treated? Are you speaking from personal experience? That is, when you attend strip clubs, do you find yourself objectifying women more so than before? If so, do you think the problem might be within you, and not in the dancers and the clubs? If you have not been to a club in 20 years, or ever, do you think you have a strong foundation for judging, must less evaluating them? Do you feel that clubs are generally sleazy and dirty venues? That could be the case in Maine. Before making a final judgement, perhaps you should also visit modern clubs in most larger cities. T ry Saphires and Jaguar in Las Vegas. Sorry for my confusion. Why do you feel dancers are exploited? :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
