akasha, you'd be great in an upper-level feminist studies seminar. Groups of feminist sex workers have brought up most if not all of your points; so have lesbians who have their own exotic dancer clubs, publish x-rated magazines for the lesbian community, informed by lesbian feminist theory.
--- In [email protected], akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > It's interesting. the dark side of these people who > > > > try to pass themselves > > > > off as the latest guru. That tendency (to declare > > > > oneself a teacher or guru > > > > or "enlightened") I tend to associate with nothing > > > > more than a refined and > > > > clever ego. I remember how disappointed I was when I > > > > found out that Charlie > > > > Lutes had loved to frequent strip clubs. > > > > > > This opens a question for inquiry, and I apply this to > > > myself, too. Why would such behavior on Charlie's part > > > bother us so much? He liked to look at naked women. > > > Okay.... I have known other people in the past that I > > > respect and admire that did the same thing from time > > > to time. Why is it such a problem? Hmmmm. > > > > Strip clubs exploit women as sex objects. > > So is your underlying premise that women are not mature or smart > enough to make such decisions for themselves? That they need society, > particularly a matriarchial society, to make such decisions for them? > > Dancing naked, or semi naked, and talking to a lot of men -- the far > greater portion of their time spent -- may be demeaning to some woman. > Others find it a great confidence booster. Some say "if you feel > comfortable about your looks and body dancing naked in front of > strangers, you feel pretty comfortable most anywhere." > > Do you feel that modern fashion, make-up, fitness centers, etc. also > objective women? Or assist women into objectifying themselves as sex > objects? Or sexy? > > Is it that dancers how portray themselves as sexual, while still > athletic, charming and humorous, that is somehow exploitive? > Exploiting outdated stereotypes of what "proper woman" should be? > > Is it the gymnastics done by some dancers and the physical > conditioning that most dancers undergo that is exploitive? Should we > shut down 24-hour Fitness and other gyms because people are being > exploited, deluded that a fit, hard and even hot body is a path to > happiness? > > If your premise is not the above, what is it that is exploitive? Do > you have some fantasies of imported sex workers without green cards > who can be exploited by threat of exposure? That is a fantasy. In most > cities, if not all, dancers need to register with the police and get > their "card", whereby a through background check is conducted. > > If your premise is not the above, I am still struggling with the > exploited thing? Exploited by making $400-1000 dollars a night instead > of $7.15/hr at WalMart? Exploited because they can pay for college and > have time to study and attaned classes (probably 50% of dancers are > students.) > > Is it the showing off their bodies that is exploitive? Well, perhaps > you don't frequent southern california beaches, or swimming pools and > lakes most everywhere, but multitudes of girls on the beach are > willingly, gleefully and proudly exposing themselves to about the same > degree as girls in strip clubs. Sometimes more -- thong swimsuits have > evolved in ways you may not be aware. And most malls and campuses -- > short shorts and low cut, belly exposed tops -- all pretty > "displayful". Are these women all being exploited? (Perhaps a case can > be made that they are -- they go to all that trouble out of the > goodness of their hearts, and are not compensated like dancers are.) > > What do you feel about nudity, sex scenes, or simply modern female > atire shown abundantly and frequently on TV and films? > > Do you think the body is shameful and should be covered? Like MMY > commenting on skinny-dippers at Humboldt 70 (many future SIMS leaders > among them) that "the body is ugly and should be covered.) > > Who is it that is exploiting the dancers? The club owners? By giving > the girls high pay (often), flexible hour employment, strong > protection should some customers get rude? > > The customers? Do you have visions of customers treating dancers > rudely? If they do, they are quickly kicked out of most clubs. > > Do you feel that dancers are prostitutes? Every try to "date" a > dancer? Persist and you will get tossed out of clubs quickly. (San > Francisco clubs aside where most anything can be done, negotiated with > the girl, on the premises.) > > Do you feel that there are other realms of society that tend to > objectify women? How should such be treated? > > Are you speaking from personal experience? That is, when you attend > strip clubs, do you find yourself objectifying women more so than > before? If so, do you think the problem might be within you, and not > in the dancers and the clubs? If you have not been to a club in 20 > years, or ever, do you think you have a strong foundation for judging, > must less evaluating them? > > Do you feel that clubs are generally sleazy and dirty venues? That > could be the case in Maine. Before making a final judgement, perhaps > you should also visit modern clubs in most larger cities. T ry > Saphires and Jaguar in Las Vegas. > > Sorry for my confusion. Why do you feel dancers are exploited? :) ------------------------ Yahoo! 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