--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FYI, the women I talked to at the strip club in Detroit > *were* my friends. ... I was interested in *them*. ... I was sorta like their pet, their artist- > in-residence, like Toulouse-Lautrec was in Paris or > Hokusai was in Kyoto. ... > > And I liked the company. The women related to me > because I treated them like women, not strippers. We > laughed togther and had fun and talked like any two > other human beings would laugh and talk. >
This captures a lot of what real world modern strip clubs are about.p Its so funny to hear abstractions about how bad clubs are -- that are based on imagination of what clubsare, or dramatic (mis)representations, and/or 25 year old journal articles. I am not a big fan of strip clubs. I have lots of better ways to spend my time, usually. I did not go to one until I was 45. I had the same imagination based view of strip clubs as Vaj and Judy appear to have. Then I actually went to one. And in travelling, explored a few others (interesting sociological study of different local mores per the clubs "rules" dictated by the local city council.) I found a number of stereotypes and misperceptions broken when I looked at WHAT IS and let go of my filters that told me what I SHOULD be seeing. First, the objectification of woman charge is pure bunk, at least in my experience. It is just the opposite. I found that over time, society and media had helped me to internally objectify women is some ways. The cliche arguments of media and fashion are I think true. Or its just male hormones. But looking at women, strangers, on the street, at the grocery store, on the beach, on campuses, on films, and appreciating their beauty and charms, while not unlike appreciating art, is a form of objectification. It is the appreciation of the visual form of women, devoid of knowing their inner qualities. Not to say I didn't know the inner worlds of a number of woman, but the ratio was skewed towards knowing this or that woman only visually. I don't think this is abnormal or unusual. Its the experience of most men -- vis a vis women, and the experience of most women vis a vis men. In this mode, some forms of objectification can and generally do take hold. Just look at the recent "teen-boy" discussions of women who are "strong in the knowledge". Nothing wrong with nice breasts of any size. But to appreciate that, or "purity", proportionally much higher, to other inner attributes of a womam, or exclusively, is objectivication in my view. And its a truth that per the above definition/ mode, most men and women objectify their gender of attraction in a number of ways. This can led to some unhealthy, but socially widespread fixations. For example, I found that I might be lying on the beach and see a college girl in a thong swin suit and become fixated on her breasts. Or wonderfully tanned ass. That was her predominant attraction to me, not her personality, not her intelligence, not her compassionate works. Not that I would ignore such if I had a chance to know her. But the subtle thought "I want to know those breasts" appears at times to predominate over "I want to get to know the charm and intelligence of that girl. Sue me, but most people find themselves with such out of balanced view at various times in thier life. And sometimes long term 24/7 The issue in modern life I beleive is not objectivication of the opposite (or preferred) sex, but rather how to break down the almost innate and socially created objectification that is as prevalent as air. For me dance club helped a lot in that regard. The REAL mileau of a modern club revolves around talking to lots of young women, scantilly clad, and getting to know them, as Unc depicts. And in this gestalt of womanly attributes, the "key triggers of attraction" such as facial beauty, breasts, tight asses, slowly become subordinate to the inner woman. There is no need to fixate on breasts, or imagine what they look like unclothed. Its all pretty much there -- regardless of whether the girl is dancing, without clothes, or simply garbed in her Fredericks of Hollywood's best. And girls with no personality and mundane intelligence, even if she is "strong in the knowledge", becomes of much less attraction than smart, funny girls. And one becomes desensitized to the reptile brain attractiveness to breasts and asses. Not blind, but I found in seeing 40 or so in quick succession, it becomes boring. More tits. BFD. And what was interesting and attractive about the girls was their inner worlds. Bottom line: I think clubs can be a strong tool for men who via the media, fashion, entertainment of modern life -- and this is most men -- have without intent, internalized a certain level of objectification of women. This ubiquitous objectification amounts to internally and automatically assigning distorted weights or values to the various attributes of women. When T & A exceed 20 to 30%, I suggest a form of objectifiation takes place. For a lot of men, the T&A weights are in the 60% + range. Exotic dance clubs can be an effective therapy in catalyzing a more balanced reweighting of the full spectrum or womanly attributes. (And a hell of a lot more fun than therapy with Dr. Pete.) ------------------------ Yahoo! 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