salyavin, I think your last sentence is also anthropomorphic, when you say that intelligence is complex. Aren't you saying that because human intelligence is complex? Do we know for sure that human intelligence is the only kind there is?
And what is it about potentiality? From my human perspective I think that that which appears most simple actually contains the greatest complexity, even if only in potentiality. On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 8:18 AM, salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : salyavin, why do we have to start with simplicity? It's an assumption that everyone seems to have. But those are often the best ones to question, aren't they? I don't think it's just an assumption, more an argument with weight behind it. The universe started with the simplest element, hydrogen, and via stellar processes gradually created elements capable of forming more complex entities. This much we know. If something had started off as complex then what would have been the decision maker in what complexity it was going to have? Take all the stuff that makes up you - mostly water and a handful of stuff but arranged in such a complex way there is probably only one or two ways of arranging it that makes something living let alone something we'd recognise as you. A great many slightly simpler version of you (and all people) were required as a base for the next stage, all the way back to plankton and beyond to carbon molecules etc. To have Share suddenly appear fully formed would be too huge a step for it to have happened on its own without arousing serious suspicion. And it's the same with the universe, if it had gone straight from the big bang to anything other than subatomic particles (which really aren't anything much but have great potential) a casual observer later on (like us) might get suspicious. It's either a step by step process or there has to be something involved in design and planning and that kind of negates the idea of creation because if it needs intelligence to do it then the intelligence must have come first. Intelligence by it's nature is complex. On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 1:55 AM, salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <jr_esq@...> wrote : Richard, You're absolutely correct. For the same reason, Hawking and Krauss concluded that the universe created itself. How absurd can you get? What they actually say is that it didn't need a creator as there are known physical principles that can mean matter and space are self creating. It didn't "create" itself in any sort of "this bit goes here" sort of way, you would need intelligence and planning for that which is why god concepts of whatever stripe don't explain creation because they would have to be around before. You have to start with simplicity. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <punditster@...> wrote : On 6/17/2014 7:40 PM, jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: >>>>Many of the popular physics writers, like Hawking and Krauss, don't believe in including consciousness in their cosmological theories. If they did, they'd realize that their assumptions about the beginning of the universe to be illogical and wrong. >>>> > >>>Apparently there is nothing in physics that indicates that there should be a human consciousness. Go figure. >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Worth a read. Woomeister Chopra challenges science to explain consciousness with a Randi style prize. The money suggests he feels confident that there is no scientific solution to the hard problem of consciousness- in the same way that James Randi feels confident there is no paranormal. >>>> >>>> >>>>The trouble for Chopra is that, while no one has managed to demonstrate even a tiny morsel of magical powers, we know quite a lot about consciousness already. >>>> >>>> >>>>Here's hoping for a swift solution to the hard problem as he's one bullshit artist I'd like to see with some egg on his face. And a million bucks would be a lot of egg..... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Deepak Chopra embarrasses himself by offering a million-dollar prize >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Deepak Chopra embarrasses himself by offering a million-... >>>>I realize now that Chopra's affliction with Maru's Syndrome—the condition described by Dr. Maru as "When I see a box, I cannot help but enter"—is ... >>>> >>>>View on whyevolutionistrue.wor... Preview by Yahoo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>
