Now, to the substance of what you said, which was an admission that you were in 
a cult, and followed a cult leader, "Dr." Freddie Lenz. You are always vague, 
about what that meant.  

 First off, it means you spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, of YOUR MONEY, 
for this guy. He received $4,000 a MONTH, from you, Barry. Big bucks. He ran 
your life. You were like his child, or his puppy, and you paid dearly for the 
times he would deign to be your friend. 
 You say it was about the great experiences "Rama" gave you, but what about the 
awful behaviors he taught you?

 What about this excessive paranoia, and aggrandizement, of yours, that others 
suck energy from you, and that you vibrate faster, and are more sensitive, due 
to your looking through a different Lenz? Focusing on "portals of time and 
space", when you should be finishing your sandwich? Freddie was the one who 
puffed you up, and made you feel special. He was the one who spoon-fed you, 
your "belief system", the fragments of which, you trot out here, on too regular 
a basis. And at the end of the day, what has he left you with? This "Hang Ten" 

 Nothing, except your misplaced bitterness at Maharishi, and the need to work, 
at an age when the rest of us can simply follow our dreams.

 Conclusion: You got fucked, royally, psychologically, financially, and 
socially, by Freddie. Its about time, you started getting over it. Your routine 
of dumping all your frustration, on those who largely got it right, and are 
living vibrant and successful lives, doesn't help you at all.

 Here's another snippet, of life with Lenz, in case you have forgotten:

 "Around the end of January, 1990, Rama told his group he wanted one hundred 
and twenty of them to pay him two hundred and fifty thousand dollars by March 
21, 1991. That group would be called "Infinity Plus Consulting." He suggested 
they complete a consulting company, that they could set one up to earn one or 
two million a year. One hundred and twenty students had to come up with $50,000 
in a year. That group would be called "National Personal and Professional". 
Those who could not come up with $50,000 could go back to the regular group. He 
could raise your power and give you more energy. Then the higher you can go 
spiritually. Rama told them he was tired of amateur cultists and they should 
see if they could do it. "Come up with the money, or, when you die, you will go 
to hell."
 In March Rama started a new company and took eighty of his most aggressive 
students on a desert trip. He talked about the money he wanted from the 
students by March of 1991. Last June he raised the monthly cost to $4,000 and 
also $1,000 a month for having dinner with Rama. He always wanted a cashier's 
check or cash for payment. He said money had bad vibrations, especially small 
 ---In, <turquoiseb@...> wrote :

 OK, my bad. I clicked on the wrong folder and the email below opened, far 
enough that I caught a glimpse of the pasted-in Rama blurb below. That was a 
real blast from the past, and caused me to laugh out loud for some time. So 
because I'm still chuckling I think I'll actually address this particular 
instance of 
 stuff from Jim and Richard. :-)


 I *was* a cultist, for the time I was a part of the Rama group. No question 
about it. It was a cult, Fred was its cult leader, and I was a cultist. I have 
No Problem saying any of this, because it's all true. 


 That said, that was then and this is now. I bailed from Rama's study a couple 
of years before he died, and before some of the *really* crazy shit went down. 


 I last saw this silly demand for a "monthly summary" shortly before I bailed 
from the group. Why I laughed so hard seeing it again is that laughter was my 
reaction when I *first* saw it. I laughed, and then I promptly ignored it. 


 I had, in fact, been teaching basic meditation for the guy, and really 
enjoying doing the teaching for free, both in the US and in Amsterdam. But I 
really *didn't* like one aspect of the way he'd set up the teaching thang -- 
he'd made it competitive. The purpose of teaching became not just to teach 
people how to meditate (which was cool in my opinion), but to urge them to 
become full-time students with Rama (which was not). Furthermore, if you found 
such students, they became your "apprentices" (a la Castaneda), and you had to 
run their day-to-day study, and be kinda responsible for them. If you got ten 
apprentices, you got a spiritual name. 


 Really. Hey, I told you it was a cult. :-)


 Anyway, I was already partly out the door, so when I heard all this shit about 
apprentices my first thought was, "Yeah, like that's gonna happen. I'll just 
teach for the fun of teaching and if any of my students feel like continuing 
with it I'll turn them over to one of the other teachers." 


 And that's what I did. I never sent in a single one of these silly reports 
because I never considered myself part of the "apprentice" thang. With one 
exception -- a girlfriend I introduced to Rama and who subsequently studied 
with him for some time -- I have never been more instrumental in "soliciting" 
anyone deciding to study with him than being the person who gave their "intro 


 But to bring this whole diversion (for that is what it is) back into the 
present, I really wish that Richard, Jim, and a few others would leave off this 
try-to-get-to-me-by-bringing-up-Rama shit. It's old, and it's based on your 
*own* cult thinking and how *your* minds work, not how mine works. 


 You guys IDENTIFY WITH your time with Maharishi, and with being part of his 
group, or of being a teacher for him. A great deal of your own personal 
"spiritual story" revolves around this identification. So when someone such as 
myself or Michael makes fun of Maharishi or says what we really think about his 
teachings, you get all defensive. By "attacking" him, you feel as if we are 
"attacking" you, and you get your buttons pushed. 


 So you try to do the same thing to me, trying to push my buttons by making fun 
of Rama or criticizing him. 


 But I really don't IDENTIFY with Rama or with that time any more. It's really 
just a part of the past, something that I walked away from over 18 years ago. 


 I don't give a shit what Willytex makes up or that anyone else posts about 
Rama. He's dead, and I walked away from him two years before he died. What you 
think of him doesn't interest me in the slightest, and it doesn't push any of 
my buttons. I don't feel the need to "defend" him, and never have. 


 I similarly don't feel the need to "apologize" for any of the time I spent 
with him. Much of that time was cutting-edge, hang-ten spiritual practice, with 
access to experiences you people never got a glimpse of within the TM movement. 
And yes, some of these experiences were a little odd and out of the ordinary, 
like witnessing levitation and invisibility and stuff like that. But it all 
really happened. Or at the very least I saw it happen. 


 End of story. It was fun for a long time, and when it stopped being fun I beat 


 Exactly like my experience with TM and Maharishi. :-)

 Now back to ignoring these folks...  


 From: "fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...
   Very interesting link - Shows that Barry was actively involved, in 
soliciting new cult members for Freddie. No wonder he keeps his mouth shut 
about that stuff, and only ever mentions Maharishi as a target, for "cult 

 This is part of a report Barry filled out, and submitted monthly, to "Doctor" 
Lenz. Other sections cover career, meditation, physical fitness, and product 
development progress, every aspect of life - no mind control here folks: 


With the understanding that your are entirely responsible for your
interactions with any individuals you choose to teach, Dr. Lenz and
ASI would like a monthly summary or your general attempts to local
appropriate students as well as a monthly update on whether you will
be bringing one or more of them to dinner the next month (starting in
January, note: Dinner reservations must be made in advance by calling
the reservation phone number).

Example: (These are not guidelines as to how you should locate or
deal with potential students of yours, it is merely an example.)

I created a poster for a lecture series I will be giving in the next 3
weeks.  i will give 3 lectures, one per week for 3 weeks at Taft
College on the subject of meditation and psychic development in the
1990s and how it can benefit you in your career.

I have found what I feel is an excellent first candidate and will be
bringing her to the next dinner. 

---In, <punditster@...> wrote :

 On 10/17/2014 2:36 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

   From: salyavin808 <>
 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...
<jr_esq@...> mailto:jr_esq@... wrote :
 > I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
 > Pastor Graham is recommending.


 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 
 Christopher Hitchens.

 The Hindu God Rama Lenz:

<noozguru@...> mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.








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