--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <no_reply@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Regarding the Onion, I can't cite specific jokes about black people > > > *as a group*, or of Jews *as a group*, or of Muslims *as a group*, > > > but I almost can -- I have a generalized memory of things along > > > those lines. Lets look for them as an interesting exercise. Which > > > ties to my larger point -- that there are a number of comedians and > > > forums that don't exclusively target any group, and also don't > > > refrain from targeting any group. > > > > Well, it ties to your larger point if these comedians > > and forums make fun of blacks/Jews/Muslims etc. as a > > group in the same way, i.e., to demean them. "Demean" > > is probably the key word here--as is my qualification > > about folks who are born into the group or who grew up > > with a particular behavior characteristic of the group. > > > > Behavioral *choices*, especially those made in adulthood, > > are another matter entirely. As I said, they're fair game > > as far as I'm concerned. > > > > > The Onion, John Stewart, the Corbert Report, SNL, Mad TV,etc. Its > > > the universality of their highlighting the foibles of all and any > > > group that make them immune IMO to charges of bigotry. If you look > > > at some sketches individually, they can look ghastly bigoted -- but > > > when the work is taken as a whole, one realizes it humor aimed at > > > the entire human comedy, not individual groups. > > > > Yes, I understand the point you're making. However, I'd > > be really, really surprised if any of these people or > > shows have ever made jokes that demeaned blacks for being > > lazy, or Jews for being stingy, say, *unless* it was in > > the context of making fun of the folks who say such things > > seriously. > > > > > Ok. I see your point. I am not arguing, but exploring. Lets look at > various comedy over the next month or so and see. > > Just off the top of my head -- some comedy that possibly "demean" some > groups and stereotypes -- but does so in the context of so many > mult-dimensional barbs aimed at many others that it is not bigoted > (these are top of my head, hypotheses - not firm arguments )
OK, I'm at a disadvantage here because I haven't watched most of these shows (and I ain't gonna just for the sake of this discussion, either!). But a couple of observations. First, I don't think a comedy that features a particular minority-type character with flaws can really be said to be attributing the flaws to the minority as a whole, especially if the character is a sympathetic one. And if it's a group being demeaned, but at the same time the members of the group featured in the comedy are also shown to have attractive characteristics, it also falls short of the kind of thing I think is offensive. At any rate, the shows you mention, partly because they're *shows*, are all in pretty much a different category than a piece of writing in which a group is demeaned without ever showing the group's positive side. One other point: When the unattractive characteristic is actually harmful, there's a lot more basis for holding it up to ridicule. The caste system in India is clearly harmful. I've heard the veneration of cows criticized as harmful--can't recall the reasons--but among the world's evils, it doesn't seem like such a big deal. And what on earth is harmful about cooking over a fire? Those two were just plain gratuitous, suggesting that Indians are basically uncivilized. Of course these things would be harmful *on a plane*, but nobody actually brings cows on a plane or tries to do their cooking over a fire on a plane. If they'd wanted to keep it consistent and inoffensive while still criticizing the caste system, they'd have thought of something that lower-caste people tend to do on planes that *isn't* harmful but is disdained by the higher castes, so that the criticism remained focused on those who are scornful of the lower castes, not those who are the object of the scorn. I'm sure it wasn't intended to be bigoted, it was just not well thought out. > Jack (Will and Grace) [gays are queens] > Pheobe (Friends) [blondes -- and women -- are ditzy] > Gracie (Burns and Allen) [Women -- are ditzy] > Tony (Taxi) [Italians are big, lunks with limited brains] > Ross (Friends) [Jews are intellectual geeks] > Latka (Taxi) [foreigners are dumb] > Early Rachel (Friends) [Jewish suburban girls are princesses] > All (South Park)[skewers most every one] > Redd Foxx (Sanford and Sons ) [Blacks are uneducated, boisterous and > crude] > Seinfeld (Jerry) [Jews are clever but whiny] > Eddie Murphy (48 Hours) [Blacks are uppity] > Eddie Murphy (SNL Buckwheat) [Blacks are slow and dumb] > All (Blazing Saddles) [So many "demeaning characterizations -- where > to start .. Blacks are lazy and shiftless, WASPS are bumbling and > corrupt, back woods hillbillies are stupid ...] > HotLips, Hawkeye... MASH [.....] > Ben Stiller (Meet the Fawkers,...) [Jews are .. , WASPs are ...., > Women are ..., Men are ... ] > Eddie Murphy, (Bowfinger) [Blacks... ] > Steve Martin (The Jerk) [Blacks,Whites ...] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
