--- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Nov 17, 2006, at 1:46 PM, sparaig wrote:
> 
> > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 17, 2006, at 11:40 AM, Marek Reavis wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Reading Sparaig's excerpt from the Shamatha teacher, it seemed to me
> >>> to be, in essence, a verbose description of what Maharishi was able
> >>> to succinctly capture in his teaching of an effortless meditation.
> >>>
> >>> But even Maharishi described his meditation, in the beginning  
> >>> days of
> >>> his mission, as a form of mind control.  That conceptual paradigm
> >>> was/is a long-established one and, reading that description (of
> >>> Shamatha) from the vantage point of a long-time TMer, it seems to be
> >>> describing (albeit kind of complicatedly) correct meditation to me.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Interesting.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The problem for the person being presented with that description of
> >>> meditation would seem to be how to figure out, from all that  
> >>> wordage,
> >>> that all you need to do is effortlessly think/use the object of
> >>> meditation (whatever that would be in the Shamatha tradition) and
> >>> whenever you were aware that you were no longer thinking/using the
> >>> object of meditation, to quietly come back to it in the same,  
> >>> natural
> >>> way that you think any other thought.  Just effortless thinking.
> >>> Effortless effort.
> >>>
> >>
> >> A couple of things: in terms of meditation practice anytime you fail
> >> to maintain the transcendent and are back in thoughts, the process,
> >> intentional or unconsciously due to engrained repetition, this does
> >> (in terms of meditation) constitute subtle effort. In Shamatha this
> >> process of not being yet in effortless meditation is called
> >> "patching", where we don't judge the fact that we are in thoughts,
> >> but just return to the object of meditation easily and simply. This
> >> actually represents about the 3rd stage of Shamatha.
> >>
> >> True effortless meditation in Shamatha is sitting to meditate,
> >> deciding to meditate a certain amount of time and then transcending
> >> the entire session: one inward stroke, one outward stroke. No
> >> "patching".
> >>
> >
> > You've got a different definition of transcending than the  
> > researchers into TM have.
> >
> > There's no decision-making to reduce activity of the thalamus.
> 
> Your body just spontaneously goes and sits down to meditate?
> 

Sometimes, when I close my eyes while sitting down, I start meditating without 
even 
noticing, but that's not what I meant. The mechanism or at lkeast apparent 
mechanims by 
which one has an episode of samadhi during TM is purely spontaneous. 

> That actually explains a lot.
>





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