--- In [email protected], gullible fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I find it a good reminder that Christianity, in > > spite of what the > > religion has become, has deep roots in mysticism and > > *MYSTERY*. > > I like this one, by John of the Cross:
Nice. Do you happen to have (or have the URL of) the original Spanish version of this poem, or even the name of the translator? I ask because I have been unable to find either on the Web today, and in my experience his works were subject to rather amazing mis-translation, probably because the (mainly Catholic) translators didn't want to deal with what he was really saying. After all, shortly after this poem was written he was kidnapped and imprisoned for some time in Toledo, whipped publicly and humiliated for his mystical ideas, which didn't quite agree with the dogma and with how his superiors thought he should lead a spiritual life. This poem alone, with its "you can't understand it, you can only experience it" approach to the mystical, must have been a real ball-buster to the entrenched clergy who proclaimed that they *understood* the unknowable. :-) In my searches this morning for the original Spanish of this poem, I stumbled upon this site, which might be of interest: http://home.wxs.nl/~brouw724/Juan.html The thing I always loved about San Juan de la Cruz was that he "got" the value of (and possibly the need for) isolation and withdrawal from one's own spiritual community in order to experience the spiritual. As in one of his other poems, he was a solitary bird who produced fewer than 2500 verses of poetry in his whole life, and they punished him for writing even that much. Yet another reason for singing softly when you've got something radical to say in your songs. :-) The conditions of a solitary bird are five: The first, that it flies to the highest point; The second, that it does not suffer for company, not even of its own kind; The third, that it aims its beak to the skies; The fourth, that it does not have a definite color; The fifth, that it sings very softly. > I entered into unknowing, > and there I remained unknowing > transcending all knowledge. > > I entered into unknowing, > yet when I saw myself there, > without knowing where I was, > I understood great things; > I will not say what I felt > for I remained in unknowing > transcending all knowledge. > > That perfect knowledge > was of peace and holiness > held at no remove > in profound solitude; > it was something so secret > that I was left stammering, > transcending all knowledge. > > I was so 'whelmed, > so absorbed and withdrawn, > that my senses were left > deprived of all their sensing, > and my spirit was given > an understanding while not understanding, > transcending all knowledge. > > He who truly arrives there > cuts free from himself; > all that he knew before > now seems worthless, > and his knowledge so soars > that he is left in unknowing > transcending all knowledge. > > The higher he ascends > the less he understands, > because the cloud is dark > which lit up the night; > whoever knows this > remains always in unknowing > transcending all knowledge. > > This knowledge in unknowing > is so overwhelming > that wise men disputing > can never overthrow it, > for their knowledge does not reach > to the understanding of not understanding, > transcending all knowledge. > > And this supreme knowledge > is so exalted > that no power of man or learning > can grasp it; > he who masters himself will, > with knowledge in unknowing, > always be transcending. > > And if you should want to hear: > this highest knowledge lies > in the loftiest sense > of the essence of God; > this is a work of his mercy, > to leave one without understanding, > transcending all knowledge. > > --- hermandan0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > A dozen or 14 years ago I was at a Baroque choir > > Christmas concert and > > they sang a piece by Jacob Handl. The verse was > > short and without > > elaboration but the translation struck me and stayed > > with me all these > > years--even though the composers name was elusive > > and I never saw the > > piece again--because it reminded me of the verse > > from Upanishads: > > > > "pUrnamada: pUrnamidam > > pUrnAt pUrnamudachyate; > > pUrnasya pUrnamAdAya > > pUrnam evAvashishyate" > > > > Which roughly translates in part as: > > > > From the Fullness came this Universe; > > Although fullness came out of Fullness, > > Fullness did not become any less Full, > > since Fullness remains ever full! > > > > Today, thanks to Google, Wikipedia, and the Choral > > Public Domain > > Library (cdpl.org) I was able to find again the > > composer, the sheet > > music and the translation. > > > > I find it a good reminder that Christianity, in > > spite of what the > > religion has become, has deep roots in mysticism and > > *MYSTERY*. > > > > Merry Christmas FFLers. > > hd > > > > > http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Mirabile_Mysterium_%28Jacob_Handl%29 > > > > > > Original text and translations > > > > Latin text > > Mirabile mysterium declaratur hodie, > > innovantur naturae; Deus homo factus est; > > id quod fuit, permansit, et quod non erat, > > assumpsit, non commixtionem passus neque divisionem. > > > > English translation > > A wondrous mystery is declared today, > > an innovation is made upon nature; > > God is made man; that which he was, > > he remains, and that which he was not, > > he takes on, suffering neither commixture nor > > division. > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >
